[Haruhi] [Experimental] Retrograde

[Brian]

Trying something new.  I worked this down from what would have probably been around 100-120k of text to....

...less. >_>;;

This is highly experimental.  I expect that most will be irritated by it.  But I had to give it a shot. :x

[thepanda]

I don't get it.

Spoiler: ShowHide

So during the filming in Sigh Kyon get's Mikuru Beamed, losses a year's worth of memories, and ends up hooking up with Sasaki?

[Brian]

I don't get it.

:(

Spoiler: ShowHide

Haruhi threw her megaphone at Kyon for his insubordination.  They were on the roof of the school.

And once again, experiment failed.

Well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

[Halbarad]

Eh, I wouldn't say it was a failure. Seemed pretty good to me, and given the style it's very hard to impart a high level of detail - most of that's going to have to be left to the reader's interpretation.

The only quibbles I have with it is that there still could have been a bit more to show what was building between Sasaki and Kyon, and the fact that Haruhi and the Brigade barely seemed to even try to get to him was noticeable as well.

[sarsaparilla]

When trying to unravel the events of the story, I think that -- on average -- I mostly got the 'what' part, but the used style doesn't easily lend itself toward addressing the 'why' part, at least unless the reader is willing to wade deep into conjectures. In my opinion, the exact nature of the 'accident' that happened while making the movie was not so relevant that it would have needed better exposure; neither did the events past the hospital scene require more work as they followed a rather steady path once the premise was clear. However, even with careful reading I couldn't pinpoint the path of logic that turned premise A to premise B around the hospital scene itself. As you have condensed a novel-length story into a vignette, that path undoubtedly exists but couldn't be seen in the given scale.

Without that particular detail, there is very little leverage for analyzing the story, and all that is left is just relishing it as it is, more poetry than prose. It had a melancholy, bittersweet atmosphere that was probably intensified by the uncertainty concerning the exact circumstances of the described events. From the stylistic point of view, it is a very consistent, engaging piece of work.

[Brian]

Eh, I wouldn't say it was a failure. Seemed pretty good to me, and given the style it's very hard to impart a high level of detail - most of that's going to have to be left to the reader's interpretation.

Probably not unfixably -- I made it clear that the first scene is from the top of a roof, so the fall is a bit more obvious.

The only quibbles I have with it is that there still could have been a bit more to show what was building between Sasaki and Kyon, and the fact that Haruhi and the Brigade barely seemed to even try to get to him was noticeable as well.

It is really hard to work on that without dialog.  I ... probably could actually fit in a scene of the pair of them at the new school, and Kyon looking incredibly beleaguered as he tries to catch up on his backlog.  That might be a chance to show Sasaki considering that she could stop helping him, but decide not to.

When trying to unravel the events of the story, I think that -- on average -- I mostly got the 'what' part, but the used style doesn't easily lend itself toward addressing the 'why' part, at least unless the reader is willing to wade deep into conjectures.

Oh?  That's--  Ideal, actually.  The purpose of the exercise is to imply without stating.  A lot of this does require setting up a framework where the reader has to answer some questions themselves, but I think I'm okay with that.

In my opinion, the exact nature of the 'accident' that happened while making the movie was not so relevant that it would have needed better exposure; neither did the events past the hospital scene require more work as they followed a rather steady path once the premise was clear. However, even with careful reading I couldn't pinpoint the path of logic that turned premise A to premise B around the hospital scene itself. As you have condensed a novel-length story into a vignette, that path undoubtedly exists but couldn't be seen in the given scale.

The original plan had a lot of gaps in it that needed to be addressed; the core of the story seemed adequate, and that's actually what I've got here.  I agree that extra scenes aren't required, but even though I'm going for minimalism here (writing without dialogue was fun; hadn't done that in a while), I can probably fit something in.

Huh ... come to think of it ... are there any other Sasaki/Kyon fics out there?

Without that particular detail, there is very little leverage for analyzing the story, and all that is left is just relishing it as it is, more poetry than prose. It had a melancholy, bittersweet atmosphere that was probably intensified by the uncertainty concerning the exact circumstances of the described events. From the stylistic point of view, it is a very consistent, engaging piece of work.

Okay, that's more or less precisely what I was trying for--  That's incredibly encouraging.  I've revised slightly with a bit more detail to clarify that it's on the roof.

I'm pondering adding another scene to show Kyon and Sasaki at school, but I'm not sure if it needs it.  It could fit, and might allow the development of their relationship to feel a bit more ... organic, even if Haruhi does have to provide that final push.  Hmm.

Edit: Man, I'm distracted; I didn't even properly thank you for the commentary. >_<  Sorry about that -- I appreciate the comments. :D

[Arakawa]

What took me a bit to figure out was the cues you used to indicate the various characters. Once I got those down the story fell (mostly) into place.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Yuki was 'slight', Mikuru was generally the 'older' girl; 'brown-haired' was reserved for Sasaki (which wasn't too difficult to figure out after the first appearance). I'm not sure what the deal was with the apparent TFEI in the hospital (we all know that colored hair = TFEI of course); that was kind of weird.

I could tell right away that it couldn't have been the Mikuru beam scene (for one thing, the beam would have gone straight through the camera; for another the view wouldn't have bounced around so much and included a megaphone) but figuring out that it was specifically Haruhi knocking Kyon off a rooftop was beyond me.

If they were on a rooftop the sky would be visible basically anywhere you pointed the camera, so you could mention the first shot as a view of Haruhi being 'silhouetted against the sky' or even 'silhouetted against a view of the city'? That might give a slight additional hint as to where that scene takes place. EDIT: while I was typing this, Brian already figured out a way to clarify it based on other people's commentary.

The hair ribbon seems to be a very versatile tool for symbolism.

One typo jumped out at me; I think 'kotasu' should be 'kotatsu'.

Anyhow, that was... (searches for word) poignant. Actually, unlike my earlier complaints about the prologue of 'Sympathy' not being very clear and thus unsatisfying, this was an example of the same sort of technique (deliberately not explaining what's happening) done right and in a very satisfying way.

The difference seems to be that this story does describe a series of visual impressions in great detail, so it is immediately clear that you are looking at something. Very tentatively, I'd recommend considering trying to flesh out the end of the prologue of 'Sympathy' (after the point when all hell breaks loose) along similar lines -- more detail down to the visual impressions, even if they don't form a complete picture (since Haruhi in the prologue has no way to tell what's going on).

[Brian]

'm pondering adding another scene to show Kyon and Sasaki at school, but I'm not sure if it needs it.  It could fit, and might allow the development of their relationship to feel a bit more ... organic, even if Haruhi does have to provide that final push.  Hmm.

Actually -- this scene wouldn't do anything but echo the scene of Kyon leaving the hospital....  Hum.  But on the 'why doesn't Haruhi try harder?' angle, maybe it would work if she (and possibly Mikuru this time, instead of Yuki) sneak into the campus and see it, unobserved?  Hmm....

What took me a bit to figure out was the cues you used to indicate the various characters. Once I got those down the story fell (mostly) into place.

The hair ribbon seems to be a very versatile tool for symbolism.

Nanoha: "I always thought so."
Homura: *nods stoically*

One typo jumped out at me; I think 'kotasu' should be 'kotatsu'.

That's right; thanks for catching that.

Anyhow, that was... (searches for word) poignant. Actually, unlike my earlier complaints about the prologue of 'Sympathy' not being very clear and thus unsatisfying, this was an example of the same sort of technique (deliberately not explaining what's happening) done right and in a very satisfying way.

Somewhat spawned from our discussion on Rai Shu, actually....

The difference seems to be that this story does describe a series of visual impressions in great detail, so it is immediately clear that you are looking at something. Very tentatively, I'd recommend considering trying to flesh out the end of the prologue of 'Sympathy' (after the point when all hell breaks loose) along similar lines -- more detail down to the visual impressions, even if they don't form a complete picture (since Haruhi in the prologue has no way to tell what's going on).

Hmm.  I think I get what you're suggesting, but a direct transfer of the effect wouldn't work.  The other thing is that this story is (trying to be) third person omniscient, which is something I'm pretty terrible at.  Third person limited, sure, but....  Anyway, it will work differently in first person -- but it's a thought.

Thanks for the comments. :)

[Brian]

Ooooh.  Okay.  Missed this earlier.  Sarsaparilla pointed out that Sasaki's presence isn't explained well enough.  So the missing scene would be Haruhi and the brigade being turned away at the hospital by Kyon's parents (or possibly a more forgiving father, while Kyon's mother is in the background already enlisting Sasaki's help).  This also underscores the (difficult to explain without dialog or being specific) 'Kyon's parents keep Haruhi out of the picture' angle.

Right. I'll try and work that scene in, too -- I think that's the missing piece.  Excellent -- wow, I'm feeling much better about this effort now. :D

[sarsaparilla]

So the missing scene would be Haruhi and the brigade being turned away at the hospital by Kyon's parents (or possibly a more forgiving father, while Kyon's mother is in the background already enlisting Sasaki's help).  This also underscores the (difficult to explain without dialog or being specific) 'Kyon's parents keep Haruhi out of the picture' angle.

Yes, that would indeed bridge the perceived gap in the chain of events. Nothing else is needed, IMHO.

Somehow, I can see this whole story as a collection of short, sepia-toned movie clips fading into each other while a slow, contemplative piano piece plays in the background. No voice or sound effects, just the rolling images and a melancholy track of music to accompany it.

[Brian]

I envisioned it like one of those animated pieces you'd see submitted at a film festival, where the creator avoids using language as much as possible to make it accessible to everyone.

Admittedly, this is written in English, and the explanation of Kyon's amnesia totally breaks that anyway. :x

But, again, thank you for the comments; it sounds like I wasn't as far off the mark as I originally feared, so that's quite reassuring. :)

[Muphrid]

I'm a big fan of heavily stylized narrative, but this technique is something that makes me really buckle down at the monitor because I know I'll have to go through with a magnifying glass to make sure everything is picked up.  That's no knock on you, Brian.  That's likely more a function of how I read.

Once I did go through things a couple times, the sequence of events seemed fairly clear.  I like the opening scene quite a bit, too.  It seems like something very naturally told with this style.

One thing that concerns me somewhat is how Kyon would get so divorced from the brigade, but explaining that may not even fit with the style or really add anything.  It can be taken as fact to keep the focus on the scenery, the emotions.

[Brian]

One thing that concerns me somewhat is how Kyon would get so divorced from the brigade, but explaining that may not even fit with the style or really add anything.  It can be taken as fact to keep the focus on the scenery, the emotions.

Er, Kyon's separated from the Brigade because he doesn't remember them.  He got (title-drop:) retrograde amnesia.

I thought it was obvious (though not in a way that satisfied me) in the scene where he wakes up.  I can downplay the specifics there and have Sasaki holding a book on memory disorders or something when they're getting on the bus, I guess.  Though, I guess I have to describe a picture on the cover of the book that explains what it is to avoid basically using a shortcut to just state it.

Hmm.  A few other instances of telling when I should be showing -- it outright says Kyon doesn't recognize Haruhi, and that should be implied.

[Muphrid]

No no, that is obvious.  My surprise is that he would go so strongly in the Sasaki direction, seemingly without getting reacquainted with the brigade that much.  I mean, on the one hand I can see it; as was said earlier, Kyon's parents might have a thing or two to say about having him associate with the people who put him in that predicament in the first place.  That's why it's not something that necessarily needs to be delved into, but it does make me think, "Okay, this, this, and this would need to happen.  Hm, yeah, I can accept that, under the right circumstances."

[Brian]

Ah, my bad.

I think that will be addressed with the one scene I plan on adding--  Haruhi and the brigade being turned away by Kyon's family, even as Sasaki is brought in as a close friend who can be trusted.

Edit: This should be the final version, barring some minor fixes, if anyone catches errors.