Coping mechanisms

[Halbarad]

Just a thought that occurred to me, and I was curious how other folks handled these kinds of things.

Obviously, folks here read a lot of fanfiction, and we're all quite aware that a large amount of it is, frankly, crap. With that in mind, there are a couple of questions that come to mind:

1. How do you filter out the first wave of crap? Story descriptions (particularly on ff.net) can be a heavy hint, but what other methods do you use to sort out the definite crud from the possibly-decent stuff?

2. Once you're reading something that's possibly good, what kinds of things do you look for to indicate that the story has potential to be good or is descending into drek? What are you willing to ignore and what turns up as an immediate red flag?

3. If you're reading a marginally good story that starts to go sour, is there a point at which you stop reading it? Is there anything in particular that can tip the scales on that, or is it just a buildup of distaste until you abandon the fic?

I've got definite answers to these myself (which I'll post later), but I'm curious how other folks handle these issues, or whether it's not really anything you worry about.

[VySaika]

I read alot less fanfic then most of you all, so my methods can afford to be more vague I suppose. Still, here's what I have.

1. I find if something is going to be unreadable crap for me, it's evident less then halfway through chapter 1. So I just stop reading there.

2. It...depends? Based on the fandom, there are some specific things that some authors do that make me :eyeroll: and I lose interest there. Stuff like...having more gay couples then anything else in an FE fic(sign the writer is just in it for the yaoi, no matter what kind of story they promised at first), or having either Ryu or BISON go down like a chump early into a Street Fighter fic(signs it's going to become author fanwanking over thier favorite char). I'm generally willing to keep reading through a minor red flag, but it will make me more inclined to stop sooner rather then later if writing quality goes down.

3. I'll usually keep reading until external forces cause me to stop for that session(gotta go to sleep, gotta go cook, etc). If the story has lost me...I just won't pick it back up. Same thing for once I get to the end of what is written, if there's only a couple chapters. If I don't like it...I just won't go looking for it again. Easy enough, really.

[Jon]

Generally I look at the favorite authors and favorite stories of authors who've written stories I like. This is not infallible, but I find it lowers the "90% shit" figure to more like 50%.

[Brian]

This depends a bit on where I'm looking at fics.  I give a much more reasonable shot to things submitted here or to the FFML than I do elsewhere.  But on ff.net, which is where I expect we're looking:

1.) Story descriptions first, then check the reviews.  Reviews tend to tell a bit--  Not a whole lot, but I (at this point) also know the names of most authors/reviewers in the Haruhi fandom, so I can judge quality/taste a bit by who says what.  Similar to the 'favorites list' approach.

2.) If I've decided to read it, I'm not usually looking for hints that it's going to turn bad; leads to me getting blindsided a lot.  Usually the 'hints' would show up in early chapters -- specifically, the author's notes.  Personal requests for reviews, complaints about negative reviewers, anything that betrays the fact that the author's primary focus in writing isn't the story itself, but just a quest for positive feedback.

3.) For reference, when I was in 4th grade, I chose 'Ivanhoe' as the subject of my book report.  It was the first book I ever did not finish (especially for a 4th grader; it wasn't too complex, just exceedingly dull).  It was not until about six years ago, when I was working at a bookstore and taking home 3-4 advanced reader's editions of various (unproofed) novels a night that I reached the second book I didn't finish.

The author of this book bugged me in person to chat about his book; it's actually a vanity press.  He's self-published.  Not that you can't get in that way, but....  The writing was just awful.  Awful.  I mean seriously -- this guy is worst than most fanfic authors we complain about.  Don't believe me?  Check out his website yourself; I think he gives a preview or something: http://www.robertbalmanno.com/

That was when I had the epiphany that I wasn't actually obligated to read everything that I started.  I still frequently need to forcibly remind myself that I can stop reading, or else I end up coming back to try and finish it, no matter how much it ends up getting me worked up.

To tip the scales....  For me, generally, just having the author demonstrate that they're really trying to improve, or that they listen to feedback tends to be sufficient.  As long as a sufficient understanding of whatever particular grating issues is demonstrated, and the author understands that what they presented wasn't what they had intended....

For example, that Liefker fic --  No Dominion.  A great story, but needlessly vilifies (and bashes) Shampoo.  Liefker saw and was given several alternatives to how what should have been a minor detail, but didn't care.  So that'd be landing on the wrong end of the scale, there -- but I think the idea is clear enough. :)

[Halbarad]

1. One of the biggest indicators for me aside from the description is chapter/story length. While there's no definite cutoff for what length a 'good' chapter will be, the shorter a story's chapters are the more likely it is to be crap in my experience. Usually, if chapters are much shorter than about 5k words on average it's not going to be a fic I care for, and chapters that are 1k words or less are pretty much an instant indicator of unfiltered crap. Shorter chapters don't allow enough space to either introduce new plot threads, work on/resolve existing threads, or start/resolve a minor thread in the space of a chapter - and without some impression of progress being made, the story tends to lack any draw to return and keep reading it. In a longer fic (more than a couple of chapters, at least), each chapter should make some progress on at least two of those three things.

2. The main thing I watch when reading a fic is characterization. For fandoms I'm interested in I have a fairly clear concept of most of the characters in my head; if the author isn't good at meeting that characterization - or at least, showing the character in a way that's different from my expectations but that's still plausible - that's what will turn me off from continuing with the fic. In some cases this can take a while, but it's the most common cause of me losing interest in a fic.

The other thing that sticks out to me is the continued addition of external story elements. It's not a hard and fast rule - it -can- be done well, certainly - but if the story keeps adding on additional elements from outside the original canon, I tend to lose interest; the author will almost inevitably give those outside elements more focus than the characters I actually care about, if they find it necessary to keep adding them into the story.

3. There's no one thing in particular that can tip the scales; usually it's a buildup of dissatisfaction with the characterization, a particularly implausible plot twist (or straight-up ass pull), or a general decline in the writing quality.

[sarsaparilla]

I don't actually read that much fan fiction, so it might be more straightforward to try and figure out the factors that entice me to make the effort, as by default I take a negative stance and the fic in question must do something out of ordinary to qualify.

But, starting from the description, the checking author profile and finally the fic itself, I'll stop as soon as I see any of the following: lack of effort (too short chapters are a strong hint), poor grammar, immaturity, obvious self-inserts or Mary Sues, awful/paper-thin characterization, lack of direction or originality, topics that I'm not interested in ... and of course, anything that makes me reach for brain bleach. I most definitely don't feel any obligation to keep reading any particular piece of work, and drop a fic without second thoughts when running into issues, or in rare cases eventually grow disinterested if the story wanders off into areas I'm not interested in exploring.

Well, on average, I don't think that it's too hard too notice when a piece of work is both original and of decent quality.

[Jon]

There's also particular parts of fanon — let's call them crack-fanon — that are obvious signs a fic is either headed downhill or is already there. For example, I like reading Harry Potter fics that do interesting things with the magic systems in the books. The genre of "Super!Harry" or "Independent!Harry" is a good approximation of a subset of those fics, since such a Harry is usually reluctant to follow the plot of the books. However, there are some common details which indicate the story is going down well-trodden and boring lines:
* Use of "so mote it be" to form a binding magical vow. That wording really doesn't sound anything like something you'd find in a HP book, and for good reason; it comes from folks like Aleister Crowley, where they like to spell things like "magick". The weird part is that authors continue to use it even after Rowling gave us a better magical vow formula, and sometimes use both in the same story.
* Reference to Albus Dumbledore as "Dumbledork", "Bumbledore", etc.
* Nobility wish-fulfilment (Lord Potter, etc)
* Harem setups

Likewise, if Akane is never seen without a mallet or Haruhi is acting more like Q than a hyperactive schoolgirl, you know you've got a problem.

[Brian]

* Use of "so mote it be" to form a binding magical vow. That wording really doesn't sound anything like something you'd find in a HP book, and for good reason; it comes from Wicca, where they like to spell things like "magick". The weird part is that authors continue to use it even after Rowling gave us a better magical vow formula, and sometimes use both in the same story.

*twitch*

Damn you, Aliester Crowley!

Okay--  Topic break; as someone who was actually raised Wiccan, that's a generalization.  It's not even one that really applies to any but what most Wiccans actually consider 'the stupidest and most immature of the bunch'.  For most Wiccans, the law of nature etc. are philosophy, and the rituals are generally considered in context (and frequently modernized).  I could go on, but I'll spare you all.

Suffice it to say:  Basement-dwellers with too much eyeshadow who talk about "magick" are not given a whole lot of respect within the proper Wiccan community.  Especially since it's more based on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thelema

* Brian still adheres to the Wiccan Rede, incidentally, even if I'm now agnostic, simply because it seems like good policy: "An' harm it none, do as ye will."

[/end digression]

[Jon]

Okay--  Topic break; as someone who was actually raised Wiccan, that's a generalization.

Sorry; I just know what I glean from Google. (edited.)

Anyways, I find I have some tolerance for variant characterization, within limits. To provide another example, I can handle Akane as a caring and understanding partner or as a short-sighted and short-tempered schoolgirl with an inflated sense of her own ability; both are elaborations upon a two-dimensional simplification of her character. What I can't handle is when Akane is actually oblivious to the pain she's causing, especially to her own family.

[Muphrid]

I'm a bit like sarsaparilla in that I don't read a ton.   When I do, chapter length is one of those tell-tale signs of underdeveloped writing.  As Hal said, there's only so much that can be done with each word, something from a thousand words per chapter is surely too fragmented to work unless in the hands of a very skilled author.

I admit, I don't tend to look for signs of trouble once I get into a story, and I'm reluctant to leave something unfinished.  Right Moments went into really strange territory, but I stuck with it and was a bit underwhelmed for doing so.  In general, unless I have a real craving, I tend to want to find out things about a longer story before reading it to know that it's worth my time.  I liked it when tvtropes fanfic recommendations had a much easier commenting policy, so you could get a good spectrum of opinions (at least, on popular stories).  Nowadays, it seems like the review system is a barrier to people expressing themselves in that respect.  But that is what that is, I guess.

[Brian]

The review system should encourage more thoughtful, fully fleshed out opinions.

Most people ignore them because the reviews don't show up on the same page as the recs (even if the link does). :/

[Arakawa]

Fortunately, I don't have to consider this question in much detail, given the huge backlog of stuff people here have recommended at one point or another ~!

(Yes, I have finally obtained a copy of Planetes.)

When I do go look for something new, I go and browse the TVTropes fic recs (if a really awful fic makes its way on there, there's generally some significant drama behind it, uncovering which is educational if not exactly pleasant), or more frequently I just watch what people here discuss that's in fandoms I'm familiar with.

If something grabs my interest, it's reasonably easy to keep going (as long as I can find the time for it!). Barring a severe shift in tone, I'd narrow down the primary reason for dropping a fic midway to be when an author writes a story for so long that it loses variety. (Of course, things like squick, poor writing, tasteless luwlz, or badly thought out plot points, tend to correlate to a fic which loses variety that much quicker.) E.g. Wastelands of Time (recommended on SR) had the repetitive angst thing going down. Once all the plot elements were resolved, it did not exactly inspire me to follow the sequel.

Somewhat off-topic (might be worth taking this up on a different thread or via PM):

Haruhi is acting more like Q than a hyperactive schoolgirl

Eep. I don't know many fics which make a vice of this. Or any besides my own, actually. This makes me worried regarding my writing. (And just as I thought I'd got the plotline figured out!) Can you specify which fics you had in mind, (or anyone else think up an example,) so I can have a look and figure out how close I am to the abyss?

[Arakawa]

Most people ignore them because the reviews don't show up on the same page as the recs (even if the link does). :/

Most people are too lazy to click, then. The new review system seemed fine to me.

Sure, once in a blue moon with the old system, you could spot a particularly good fic by the fact that it had a collaboratively edited tropey summary, but in general what it takes away in scannability, it seems the new system adds in letting people, y'know, state a reasoned opinion for or against without cluttering the recs page.

And you can spot particularly good fics by a tendency to have entire trope pages of their own as well, so that hasn't gone away either.

(Well, except the couple of times that publicity-whoring authors initiated trope pages for their own fics where none were deserved. I'm specifically looking at whatever fool wrote 'Kira is Justice'. That sort of thing often explicitly ends up disclaimed on the page though, since there's a trope for that kind of author behaviour.)

EDIT: After going to verify 'Kira is Justice', I see I'm probably jumping to conclusions. I do know it's a Death Note continuation which is monstrously dull (it repeats some of the original Death Note plot points verbatim) so that even the author got bored writing it, and it has a tropes page, and the author edited the tropes page at one point (explicitly pointed out on the page), and now it's Old Shame (also explicitly pointed out on the page).

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/FanFic/KiraIsJustice -- see notes on Word of God, and Dead Fic

I honestly don't know.

[Jon]

Haruhi is acting more like Q than a hyperactive schoolgirl

Eep. I don't know many fics which make a vice of this. Or any besides my own, actually. This makes me worried regarding my writing. (And just as I thought I'd got the plotline figured out!) Can you specify which fics you had in mind, (or anyone else think up an example,) so I can have a look and figure out how close I am to the abyss?

Don't worry; I was more thinking of the sort of "lulzfic" Brian had complained about a few weeks back and, looking for a simple description, remembered the worst of the TNG plots involving Q, the sort of thing where they all have to play Robin Hood just because. (It being my (possibly mistaken) understanding that a lot of those lulzfics like to have Haruhi causing the madness.) Nothing to do with your writing at all.

And you can spot particularly good fics by a tendency to have entire trope pages of their own as well, so that hasn't gone away either.

It seems to me that having a trope page means "some tropers liked this" more than "I am likely to like this". For example, Nobody Dies and Shinji and Warhammer 40K, two NGE fics which (IMO, obviously) had strong potential but squandered it by flanderization. Also, two NGE fics that are loved by sufficiently-large amounts of tropers.

[Muphrid]

The review system should encourage more thoughtful, fully fleshed out opinions.

Most people ignore them because the reviews don't show up on the same page as the recs (even if the link does). :/

Yeah, I definitely like the extra space compared to what used to be there before, but you'd think there'd be some way to split the difference--like through some technomagic to have the reviews be in-line but only show the first line or two and be expandable, so people can read and respond and so on without leaving the page.

That, and I have a bad taste in my mouth because it felt like all those comments were shunted to reviews thanks to antvasima, who pitched a royal fit and threw negative comments all over The Key to a Successful Interview...'s recommendation and page and spurred the whole system rework (at least in my mind).  The Ranma rec page is still locked because of him.

...but that's all neither here nor there.