Toronto - the city of subways

[Arakawa]

The inevitable tradeoff between Montreal and Toronto is as follows:

• Montreal is cooler, versus
• Most people you actually know live in Toronto.

[Jon]

Who said anything about a tradeoff? I'm doing both.

[Arakawa]

Certainly! But you're just visiting, whereas I can only live permanently in one or the other!

(Re: Montreal being cooler than Toronto, I'm trying to think of what cool things Toronto even has that don't also exist in New York or San Francisco. Coming up mostly blank at the moment.)

[Dracos]

San Fran and New York are pretty high bars.  Not a large number of cities worldwide really got much trump on them.

[Jon]

(Re: Montreal being cooler than Toronto, I'm trying to think of what cool things Toronto even has that don't also exist in New York or San Francisco. Coming up mostly blank at the moment.)

I've wanted to visit a Marche Movenpick ever since reading about it in Eyrie's Symphony of the Sword (probably don't start reading that if you're not familiar with Eyrie-style fanfic), and I understand Toronto still has one.

[Arakawa]

* Arakawa has been to Movenpick multiple times. Doesn't get what the big deal is.

The problem I found with Movenpick was that the portions were way way too large. So there's only so much stuff you can... well... pick in one visit. One main course and a waffle and I was bursting at the seams.

Maybe it's changed.

I think when last I was there Montreal also had a Movenpick. Toronto's Movenpick is inside the PATH network, and Montreal's Movenpick is inside the Souterrain.

Actually, the PATH/Souterrain/Pedway systems are one of the things that is fairly unique in the major Canadian downtowns. All of the buildings and subway stations are connected using underground passages / overhead walkways / whatever, enabling office drones to exist in an environment completely isolated from the sometimes atrocious and always-inconsistent weather conditions. So the suits working at the Bank of Montreal (cosmic irony!) skyscraper in downtown Toronto don't get mauled by polar bears on the way to Union Station.

* Arakawa removes tongue from cheek.

In practice, it's like a huge mall that goes on... and on... and on....... not much to write home about........ and it can get somewhat confusing. I remember meeting people in a restaurant on Yonge St., and getting mixed up by the fact that the facade on Yonge is the back entrance of the restaurant, and the front door (where we were supposed to meet) was in the basement.

San Fran and New York are pretty high bars.  Not a large number of cities worldwide really got much trump on them.

It's not that I'm saying T.O. needs to beat San Francisco and New York. I'd just like its salient features not to be a slightly polished subset of said two cities. Montreal has the Quebecois, along with a whole bucketload of history that's just not present in Toronto, which makes it actually interesting to visit even if you've been to New York, since it's not just duplicating stuff already found in more famous cities.

[Jon]

Actually, the PATH/Souterrain/Pedway systems are one of the things that is fairly unique in the major Canadian downtowns. All of the buildings and subway stations are connected using underground passages / overhead walkways / whatever, enabling office drones to exist in an environment completely isolated from the sometimes atrocious and always-inconsistent weather conditions. So the suits working at the Bank of Montreal (cosmic irony!) skyscraper in downtown Toronto don't get mauled by polar bears on the way to Union Station.

Sounds like Shinjuku station except without the subway. Minneapolis has a similar thing, except theirs is skyways connecting buildings.

[Arakawa]

Right, but I'm pretty sure PATH has more square footage than the Shinjuku underground complex, even if it's not nearly as crowded (outside of working hours when it's absolutely swarming with suits, the shops can seem almost eerily deserted).

Also, what do you mean without the subway? It connects to six subway stations and a commuter rail terminal. (Yeah, again, not as crowded as Shinjuku.)

Just take a look at the map (page 2 of the PDF) to get a sense of the scale:

http://www.toronto.ca/path/pdf/path_brochure.pdf

Minneapolis has a similar thing, except theirs is skyways connecting buildings.

Ah. I think Calgary and to a lesser extent Edmonton do the skyway thing. I notice the Wikipedia page you linked also notes the existence of underground cities in Texas downtowns.

[Jon]

Also, what do you mean without the subway? It connects to six subway stations and a commuter rail terminal. (Yeah, again, not as crowded as Shinjuku.)

Tokyo's subway system is the only one truly worthy of the name.

(Actually I just forgot.)

[Arakawa]

Update: the PATH as explained by a stop-motion midget chipmunk.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ULKZqqBW3g

(Yeah... I'm not sure what the thinking behind that movie was. Probably something along the lines of "I bet I can get a grant to film this random nonsense!")

As you can see, it's just a huge climate-controlled mall. Which is considered a big deal in Canada.

[Dracos]

*redirects* Not that it isn't fun, but perhaps a thread on discussing toronto? :3

Amusement in the Bitching Bin, Moving. =P

[Jon]

*sings a song of Toronto*

[Music-chan]

Toronto is much cooler than Montreal because it's not in Quebec. >_>

Sorry, it had to be said! =p

[Arakawa]

Montreal is much cooler than Toronto since it's much further to the north... (Edmonton is, by that criterion, the coolest major city in Canada, however.)

Kidding aside, a lot of the good stuff about Quebec is just as easy to appreciate from a distance. (Kind of how people watch anime and read manga who don't ever have any intention of moving to Japan.) And some of the bad stuff is pretty miserable when seen in person. While Montreal has some nice 'historic' parts, a lot of it is also really depressing and now-dilapidated sixties era construction.

http://www.photojpl.com/dilapidated-roads-in-quebec:-turcot-interchange/-/wT2edBbAof/

This panorama is certainly a concentrated, but fairly representative, image of what you'll almost certainly see in some parts of Montreal. Some mid-sized Quebec cities (looking at you Ste. Agathe!) are similarly ugly, and with less history.

However, urban coolness can also be evaluated in terms of culture. (Which is ironic, since culture does not have to be enjoyed in the city of origin.)

Songs in my music library which mention Montreal (in order of decreasing... legendariness?):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibs7I7D2b54 - Martin d'la Chasse-Galerie
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tat2V97FYqE - Blues d'la Metropole
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLVd6oMpn9o - Les Etoiles Filantes; kind of a 'Studio Ghibli does Quebec' vibe with the video, since all of the ugliness (and, in fact, ethnic diversity, but that's a separate discussion) of Montreal has been carefully cropped out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0-1GKXZEA - Les Peaux de Lievres

I haven't found any music of similar quality which mentions Toronto, although I'd be curious for a recommendation. There's got to be stuff that clears this fairly low bar:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZnLjRi_g9o - Spadina Bus. Not sure if this is kind of neat... or just incredibly embarrassing. I guess "it's the 80's" just about sums things up?

Toronto generally seems to have this overwrought, kitschy aesthetic. It also shows up on some of the odder murals in the railway underpasses, and of course Honest Ed's: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ourfamilypicture/3727992137/

(Honest Ed's has to be seen in person, both inside and outside, to be properly believed. It's so kitschy that, on going inside, you get this weird feeling that all its kitsch has warped the architecture to such an extent that it exists in five dimensions.)

Also notable is the 'bug van', a mysterious contraption often seen in the vicinity of Dupont & Palmerston: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tamingnoise/5627880729/

The bug van's owner also has a house (see slideshow): http://www.blogto.com/arts/2009/02/art_of_bugs_of_toronto/

(I discover from that article that the van is actually called "Art of Bugs of Toronto". Indeed.)

Of course, it's not just 80's kitsch. Toronto kitsch doesn't go away, it just evolves. Here is the modern tradition of inviting star international architects to construct expensive three-dimensional graffiti, in full blossom:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/summer_ming/2242340387/ -- objects in Flickr appear prettier than they are in reality. Also, in winter potentially-lethal icicles tend to grow on the underside. Hooray for falling icicles!
http://ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Projects_and_initiatives/Spadina_subway_extension/Design/Steeles_West_Station.jsp -- They're still building kitsch into the outskirts of the subway system -- scroll down to "North Entrance and Substation".
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15945834@N05/6289256509/ -- this is actually kind of cool to see in real life. Not too hard to find, it's practically behind the Art Gallery of Ontario.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tomcochrane/4561821742/ -- plastic totem poles and mummies that, again, look far, far more retarded when seen in real life without HDR.

_{(To be honest, the nicest-looking TTC subway station right now is probably Downsview. The one waay out in the suburbs.)}

[Music-chan]

I saw on the news the other day that some study pegged Toronto as the second smartest city in the world. It was apparently the only Canadian city to make it onto the list.

That has been your weird trivia for today.