How to write a story around an idea?

[Agasa]

As per subject, i often get nice ideas that i would like to write into a story, or small scenes that would work nicely in such a story, but it pretty much ends there.

I can't get anything beyond a premise, and if i manage to even write anything at all, it most likely ends right there. I can't find a way to make the story progress, much less end in a satisfying manner.

It's very frustrating, and it almost made me give up on writing entirely. Do you have any advice for me?

[Jon]

As it happens, Warren Ellis has written a blog post about this, and I can't think of any better way to start answering this question than to link there.

To provide a non-comics example, let's consider the classic Trek episode "The City on the Edge of Forever".

Spoiler: ShowHide

Kirk and Spock are trapped in 1930s NYC. They want to return to their own time. In order to return to their own time, they must isolate the cause of history being changed and prevent that change. There are a number of obstacles put in the way of that, ranging from their own unfamiliarity with the milieu to Spock having to augment his tricorder's computing capability using only local technology. But ultimately, the conflict comes down to Kirk's love for Edith Keeler versus his duty to his civilization. In the end, he is prepared to let her die if that's necessary in order to save the future.

This could have developed from any number of ideas, such as "Kirk and Spock in depression-era New York", "Spock using primitive technology to save the day" or "Kirk's love versus Kirk's duty". Unfortunately, I don't think we actually know where it came from, but I think it's still a good example.

[Brian]

Well, all stories begin with an idea.  Sometimes they even start with a scene, and no clear way of how things got there.  Take a look at Sarsaparilla's The Shadow... which started off as (evidently) a WAFF-y feel-good scene.  In her case, the exploration of, 'what leads to that scene?' turned up some ... pretty impressive (though decidedly non-WAFF-y) stuff.

Naturally, everyone will work differently on this one.

Anyway--  My thoughts on going from 'idea' to 'story' is that 'idea' is the step before 'outline.'  This isn't to say that outlines are mandatory -- I used to write without one -- but I find as a tool, they are astoundingly useful.  The practical application (and keeping this relevant to your question) is that you start with your opening scenario, which is typically 'some point of the canon as it stands,' then look at your idea and ask, 'How do I get there?'

This is assuming that your idea is a conclusion -- there are other cases, but let's address just this one for now.

The 'How?' is a question that you're writing to explore -- as Hal mentioned in his recent reply to Gotonis's fic.  It's the journey, not the destination ... and that's generally what the story's all about, right?

So, let's take a sample idea, like, 'Sasaki joins the SOS Brigade.'  Let's say the image of her and Haruhi sitting across a chessboard from one-another and chatting amiably while sipping tea is your idea.  It comes to you in a fit of awesome (because both Haruhi and Sasaki are awesome, so naturally, the two of them together is also awesome).  You think about it a bit, and other details fall into place.  Mikuru and Koizumi are there, looking mildly awed, Yuki is, well, being Yuki, but watching with interest, and Kyon is looking really satisfied with things (based on his comment that 'he'd like to see a world where Sasaki and Haruhi work hand-in-hand').

How they get there is a pretty big question!  There's some other questions, too -- this is a cute scene, but what the heck leads up to it?  What's this story going to be about?

You can start by attacking some of the logical issues that need to be overcome to get Sasaki into the SOS Brigade.  First of all ... is she a member of the unofficial affiliation?  Is she actually attending Kitago?  Let's say she is going to Kitago.  Now we have to figure out why -- and then how.

Does Sasaki transfer because she ended up becoming Haruhi's friend, and deciding she'd be more comfortable at their school?  Or is it the other way around, and Sasaki transfers, and after some hardships and drama, then becomes friends with Haruhi?  What's Kyon's role in all this?

So, start throwing ideas and justifications -- but be critical of them.  Try to spot weak points and break them down.

Alright, let's try this one out.  Kyouko's devious, and pushes the paperwork through to get Sasaki transfered, hoping to trigger some sort of confrontation between Haruhi and Sasaki!  Based on the goal, this isn't going to happen, but that's the seed.  Poking at it a bit, this does mean that Kyouko's motivation in all of this is to steal Haruhi's power away, and it also makes her ... well, not a good friend of Sasaki to disrespect her wishes and try to force the issue on Sasaki.  The plot can be Kyon (with Koizumi's help) unraveling her motivations and breaking it to Sasaki, who's forced to transfer because of higher-level esper meddling.

Once she's aware, there's not a lot of conflict in the story, because Sasaki doesn't agree with Kyouko's motivations, and is going to actively work against them.

Feels a bit weak, and also makes Kyouko a bad guy (or if you really push it, a magnificent bastard, at best).

So, let's try another idea.  How about ... Sasaki runs into the Brigade during a weekend outing, and following up her romantic interest in novel 11, she's a bit down because she got dumped (or the guy handled rejection poorly), so she's having a bit of a tough time.  She's really cheered to see Kyon, but doesn't want to interfere with his relationship with Haruhi (Kyon: "What relationship? >_>;"  Haruhi: "That's my line! <_<;;").  Haruhi picks up on this, but for all her growth, isn't able to extend the hand of friendship; she's still uncomfortable around Sasaki because of the romantic threat factor that she percieves.

Even so, Haruhi genuinely does wish that things were better for Sasaki, and that Kyon could somehow help her out -- but not at the expense of his position in the Brigade/at Haruhi's side.

In the real world, this wish manifests in the guy Sasaki's not going out with being a real jerk, and things getting so out of hand, Sasaki's school turns back into an all-boy's school -- so she's forced to transfer.  Kyouko naturally points to her own school, but after another chance encounter, seeing that things have gotten worse for Sasaki and feeling responsible in ways that she can't quite articulate, Haruhi suggests that she should transfer to Kitago -- after all, she's friends with Kyon, right?  And this wouldn't have Kyon moving away from the Brigade.

Sasaki hesitantly agrees and is placed either in Nagato's class, or with Kyon and Haruhi.  With Kyon and Haruhi creates a bit more tension, though.  Now the conflict is a lot less intense -- it's basically a drama, really -- and all of the tension is Haruhi overcoming her reluctance, Sasaki overcoming her reluctance to be friends with Kyon because of her fear of impinging on the Kyon/Haruhi relationship, and Kyon overcoming his own hesitance to make that relationship a reality while still maintaining (perhaps even building on) his friendship with Sasak -- and also helping Sasaki and Haruhi become friends.

There's a lot of ways to play that, but it seems like a reasonably solid outline, and gives everyone a chance to show their human failings -- and also shine.

So, at the end of the day, Sasaki can help prompt Kyon to confess to Haruhi, Haruhi can encourage Kyon to be Sasaki's friend and get over her jealousy (and maybe even help Sasaki come to grips with her old feelings for Kyon and get over them), and Kyon can gain some resolve and realize he is in the best club ever.

...as an example.  There's still a lot of flexibility in that fairly skeletal outline.

I lost my train of thought in a company meeting; will post this and let others comment a bit. @_@

[Muphrid]

If you have a premise already, you have a good starting point.  To me, the next thing to do is ask yourself what the point of the story is.  I say that because a premise can be very open-ended.  Speaking from my own repertoire, a premise of, "Haruhi begins to discover her powers thanks to a vending machine," only just begins to cover what The Coin became.  To give the story direction, look for a message, something that resonates, some way you want the characters to change and learn something.  For me, that was Haruhi realizing that powers and the extraordinary were no longer what she looked forward to most in life but finding real friends in the brigade was.  That's a bit long-winded.  In general, the more succinct and simplified the message, the better, I think, because it's easier to stay on point with it.

Once you have a premise and a message, consider the characters and their goals.  It's how a character tries to accomplish their goals and what they gain from success or learn from failure that reinforces the message.  Again, to speak concretely, in The Coin, it was never Haruhi's goal to realize her priorities had changed.  She starts off trying to understand what she is and then to understand the consequences of her powers and then to try to make amends for whatever damage she may have caused in the past.  As you might see, goals can and will change throughout the story, and to me, what gives a story its natural structure is when goals are achieved, nullified, or made moot and a new goal must be considered.  I divided The Coin into thirds, one goal as the driving force for each third.

Going straight into finer divisions of a piece may not be the best approach, though.  If you can imagine a character having some motivation, some goal to begin with, you should be able to consider how that goal may be thwarted and require redefinition--very rarely are goals achieved in full.  If they are, they're just one step in a bigger plan.  More often, the antagonist makes reaching the goal impossible or unpalatable in some way, and the protagonist has to rethink what the best course is.  Coming up with a series of goals and how they're thwarted, requiring new goals, is what should generate some idea of the internal structure of the story.

From there, I just attack the problem recursively.  If you already have the story divided into thirds or fourths, take each part and divide it.  Set up a series of goals that chain into each other until you feel like enough detail has been fleshed out to write it.  How much is enough is up to you; I used to go down all the way to the scene level for every chapter in huge stories.  Nowadays, I only break down to the chapter level in advance and fill in the gaps for scenes only for the next chapter, mostly because I'd often find myself scrapping a lot of what I'd done in advance because of some new inspiration or from realizing a piece of logic required something to be that way.

I think new writers tend to focus more on plot in an objective sense than in the eyes of a character (at least, more so with third-person perspectives).  I try to remember that every character has a story, even if it's not the one being told actively at the moment.  If you change perspectives between characters, then you're telling a different story each time.  In other words, try to avoid using a POV character as merely a camera on the action.  Remember they have a story and try to figure out what that story is, so when you come to them, you're immediately grounded in it.

You talk about having a smattering of scenes that you have the idea for but being unsure how to put them together into a story.  I get that, too.  For instance, I had an idea for a scene in a Nagato-centric story where an emotionally unstable Nagato, after witnessing an argument between Kyon and Haruhi, stalks Haruhi and kills her, with Kyon arriving on the scene too late and just able to hold Haruhi as she dies, and he comforts her as she calls out for John Smith, only to try to tell John that she's met someone else important in her life, more treasured than even him, but then, her wounds totally heal, and she's able to fight back.  Now, if you're horrified to read that, well, I was horrified to think about it, for while I liked the part with Kyon and Haruhi, that Nagato would do such a thing never sat well with me.  And so I thought about it, thought about it, and I realized it would be much better if Asakura were the one to try to kill Haruhi instead, going with that perverse loyalty/love vibe from Disappearance, and that in turn led me to thinking about emotions in general for the Entity and then free will, which we discussed on IRC once.

And despite all that, that scene may end up in the trashcan because, well, I haven't outlined that story to any extent, and it may not end up fitting.  It might, but it might not.  That's the way it goes sometimes.

Anyway, I've described a lot of my personal approach.  Whatever method or system you choose to try to develop a story, it will likely take time, and don't be concerned by that.

[Jason_Miao]

As per subject, i often get nice ideas that i would like to write into a story, or small scenes that would work nicely in such a story, but it pretty much ends there.

I can't get anything beyond a premise, and if i manage to even write anything at all, it most likely ends right there. I can't find a way to make the story progress, much less end in a satisfying manner.

If you're talking about that great one-liner, or even novel-yet-poignant scene that you know that you MUST INCLUDE, the answer may be "Don't do that."  There's even a phrase for this amongst authors: "Murdering your Darlings".

"Whenever you feel an impulse to perpetrate a piece of exceptionally fine writing, obey it--wholeheartedly--and delete it before sending your manuscript to press. Murder your darlings."

Basic rule is, if you're excited about a development you want to work into the story because it will let you pursue new twists to the conspiracy, new ways to bring depth to your characters, new challenges for the team to surmount, then that's probably fine.  But then, if that were the case, I wouldn't think that figuring out how to writing your ideas would stop your fic from developing.  After all, if you have a genuinely good new twist to the conspiracy, you can explore that twist!  If you're really bringing new depth to your characters, how other characters react should significantly change!  If your team has new challenges, you have scenes to write on how handle the challenge!  A good development should give you more to write.

So from the little you've mentioned, I think it is rather likely that it's that sort of clever turn of phrase or nifty scenario that you feel is pretty cool on its own.  It's the type of idea that takes over your thoughts, and where you have to keep writing it because every other breath, you've thought of yet another interesting aspect.  It may have even been the core scene or phrase that inspired you to write the story in the first place.

The risk in obeying your impulse to include those "darlings" is that most of us (myself included) can't objectively judge whether it's any good in the excitement.  And the sign that your idea isn't as great as it could be is that you just can't figure out how to write this scene, so you force it.  And having done so, you can't continue writing, because nothing you write after that point seems to work.  In that case, I've found that the problem isn't a lack of writing skill - the problem is the perception of needing that idea in the first place.


There's a short audio clip about this by a few writers, which I thought was pretty good.  I'll see if I can't dig it up.

[KLSymph]

I can't get anything beyond a premise, and if i manage to even write anything at all, it most likely ends right there. I can't find a way to make the story progress, much less end in a satisfying manner.

Inability to write has more than one root cause. The advice that everyone has given above me are all good solutions for specific causes, but based on the opening post, I think it may be too early to start giving them until we pinpoint why you're finding the writing difficult.

Give us a concrete example of an idea that you've had and the sequence of thoughts that carried you from "this is interesting" to "I don't want to write this".

[Agasa]

I thank everyone for the replies. I'm already thinking of how to overcome this obstacle (probably, a suggested by some, by changing subject and try a tamer subject for the time being). The idea that i wanted to write about and can't is a TTGL fic - specifically, a rewrite of the ending.

Spoiler: ShowHide

I bet nobody liked to see Nia die like that, and my intention was to bring her back.

I thought up a nice speech from Kamina, to give Simon the will to fight (And we know that Kamina is not going to let Simon make the mistake of letting her go).

Spoiler: ShowHide

 I had the ending, that is, Simon happy with a couple of sons around. The part that stumped me was the midpoint - how to get to where she is, how to revive her without Spiral Power - but most importantly how to do it in a way awesome enough to be acceptain TTGL.

EDIT:added spoiler tags.

[Grahf]

Spoiler: ShowHide

I thank everyone for the replies. I'm already thinking of how to overcome this obstacle (probably, a suggested by some, by changing subject and try a tamer subject for the time being). The idea that i wanted to write about and can't is a TTGL fic - specifically, a rewrite of the ending. I bet nobody liked to see Nia die like that, and my intention was to bring her back.

Er, you might want to spoiler that, just saying. I don't know if everyone here has watched the series.

I thought that this might have been what you were thinking about when you asked this question, since you seemed to take that ending particularly hard.

Some considerations you might want to make:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Even though it does constitute a downer ending, the fact that Simon doesn't revive Nia plays into his way of honouring the Anti-Spirals dying wish, that Spiral capable species don't totally wreck the universe and bring about the end of everything due to overuse and abuse of Spiral energy.

To that end, you need to address some of the problems that Nia's revival might bring up: namely that everyone is going to want to bring back people they've lost in tragic circumstances. If Nia's revival is a one time thing, then there needs to be a legitimate and convincing reason as to why she's the exception to the rule.

I'm fairly sure that in canon Nia and Simon have at least a couple of days before the wedding, and it's clear that they both know that her death is something that seemingly can't be averted. Given the bevy of blank time though this would make a decent point of divergence from the original story, where something happens to change the circumstances.

I do have a couple of thoughts on this myself, but I'd rather not relate them unless you want me to, for fear of impinging on your own thoughts on how to handle everything.

With all that in mind, best of luck to you.

[Halbarad]

Brian's already hit a lot of what I'd have said, so what I'll get into is where having a secondary influence to review your idea and refine the story can come in useful. I've done this a lot with Brian (and he's done it for my ideas) so I'll take his example setup and hit the points I'd pick out if we were actually discussing this as something to write up.

So, let's take a sample idea, like, 'Sasaki joins the SOS Brigade.'  Let's say the image of her and Haruhi sitting across a chessboard from one-another and chatting amiably while sipping tea is your idea.  It comes to you in a fit of awesome (because both Haruhi and Sasaki are awesome, so naturally, the two of them together is also awesome).  You think about it a bit, and other details fall into place.  Mikuru and Koizumi are there, looking mildly awed, Yuki is, well, being Yuki, but watching with interest, and Kyon is looking really satisfied with things (based on his comment that 'he'd like to see a world where Sasaki and Haruhi work hand-in-hand').

How they get there is a pretty big question!  There's some other questions, too -- this is a cute scene, but what the heck leads up to it?  What's this story going to be about?

You can start by attacking some of the logical issues that need to be overcome to get Sasaki into the SOS Brigade.  First of all ... is she a member of the unofficial affiliation?  Is she actually attending Kitago?  Let's say she is going to Kitago.  Now we have to figure out why -- and then how.

Does Sasaki transfer because she ended up becoming Haruhi's friend, and deciding she'd be more comfortable at their school?  Or is it the other way around, and Sasaki transfers, and after some hardships and drama, then becomes friends with Haruhi?  What's Kyon's role in all this?

For this point, the more likely scenario to me is that Sasaki transfers first. There are issues with having Haruhi and Sasaki become friends prior to her transferring; the primary one is that there's simply not enough opportunity for the two to interact for this to really work out. Haruhi's already shown some notably negative reactions to Sasaki, so it seems odd that she'd voluntarily stick around in Sasaki's presence; putting her in a situation where she's basically forced to come to terms with Sasaki one way or another seems like it's the better course.

Alright, let's try this one out.  Kyouko's devious, and pushes the paperwork through to get Sasaki transfered, hoping to trigger some sort of confrontation between Haruhi and Sasaki!  Based on the goal, this isn't going to happen, but that's the seed.  Poking at it a bit, this does mean that Kyouko's motivation in all of this is to steal Haruhi's power away, and it also makes her ... well, not a good friend of Sasaki to disrespect her wishes and try to force the issue on Sasaki.  The plot can be Kyon (with Koizumi's help) unraveling her motivations and breaking it to Sasaki, who's forced to transfer because of higher-level esper meddling.

This begs some questions; what exactly do Kyouko's bosses hope to gain from such a confrontation? They can't influence Haruhi directly, after all. But a suggestion: perhaps there's been some kibitzing behind the scenes between Koizumi's faction and Kyouko's faction, and the hope is that by provoking a severe reaction from Haruhi, Koizumi's group can be talked into cooperating with getting the power transferred from Haruhi to Sasaki. Koizumi and Kyouko may not even be aware of this entire plan, however, just given some general orders to the effect that they need to either prevent or instigate such a reaction.

Once she's aware, there's not a lot of conflict in the story, because Sasaki doesn't agree with Kyouko's motivations, and is going to actively work against them.

Feels a bit weak, and also makes Kyouko a bad guy (or if you really push it, a magnificent bastard, at best).

So, let's try another idea.  How about ... Sasaki runs into the Brigade during a weekend outing, and following up her romantic interest in novel 11, she's a bit down because she got dumped (or the guy handled rejection poorly), so she's having a bit of a tough time.  She's really cheered to see Kyon, but doesn't want to interfere with his relationship with Haruhi (Kyon: "What relationship? >_>;"  Haruhi: "That's my line! <_<;;").  Haruhi picks up on this, but for all her growth, isn't able to extend the hand of friendship; she's still uncomfortable around Sasaki because of the romantic threat factor that she percieves.

Even so, Haruhi genuinely does wish that things were better for Sasaki, and that Kyon could somehow help her out -- but not at the expense of his position in the Brigade/at Haruhi's side.

This is still a bit of a stretch, to my view; while I can see her sympathizing, I think she's still a bit too selfish canonically (even at this point) to even want to share a little bit of Kyon with someone she already views as something of a threat. There might be ways this could be worked around, but it seems like a somewhat weak point to me, and would need to get some kind of lampshading or focus - maybe it requires Kyon to actually step up and work on convincing Haruhi, making some concessions to her.

Haruhi: "If she's coming here, I want it absolutely clear that you're not to get involved with dating her! Your duties to the Brigade are more important than that!"
Kyon: "I don't really think that would be a prob-"
Haruhi: "And to make sure it's absolutely clear to her, you're going to take me out on a date! If she's convinced that you're already attached, it won't even come up!"
Kyon: "...right."

In the real world, this wish manifests in the guy Sasaki's not going out with being a real jerk, and things getting so out of hand, Sasaki's school turns back into an all-boy's school -- so she's forced to transfer.  Kyouko naturally points to her own school, but after another chance encounter, seeing that things have gotten worse for Sasaki and feeling responsible in ways that she can't quite articulate, Haruhi suggests that she should transfer to Kitago -- after all, she's friends with Kyon, right?  And this wouldn't have Kyon moving away from the Brigade.

Sasaki hesitantly agrees and is placed either in Nagato's class, or with Kyon and Haruhi.  With Kyon and Haruhi creates a bit more tension, though.  Now the conflict is a lot less intense -- it's basically a drama, really -- and all of the tension is Haruhi overcoming her reluctance, Sasaki overcoming her reluctance to be friends with Kyon because of her fear of impinging on the Kyon/Haruhi relationship, and Kyon overcoming his own hesitance to make that relationship a reality while still maintaining (perhaps even building on) his friendship with Sasak -- and also helping Sasaki and Haruhi become friends.

Tying back to my previous comments, I don't necessarily see this as unlikely, but Kyon's going to have to be a major motive force in getting this to happen. I don't see Haruhi being willing or eager to offer her help, although I don't see her denying that help either - it's just something where she's going to have to be motivated by some outside source.

---

This is just an example of what a second party can do in helping you review your ideas as you flesh them out. Normally, Brian and I do things like this on IRC, and the points or ideas I raise will prompt responses that further explore the idea I've suggested or take the story in a different direction - or sometimes just reveal that there's been more thought put in that might not have been directly addressed, and the point itself is actually perfectly justifiable.

Not all suggestions or comments will be (or will need to be) taken, but just getting someone to review the idea and say "this looks weak, can we explore further?" gives the indication that there's something about that particular idea that might need to be reinforced, since it's leading to some doubt from a second opinion.

[KLSymph]

The idea that i wanted to write about and can't is a TTGL fic - specifically, a rewrite of the ending. ... The part that stumped me was the midpoint ... but most importantly how to do it in a way awesome enough to be acceptain TTGL.

Okay, then my next question is, specifically what sort of "story" are you hoping to write? Will it just be an ending, which is presumably short (a few pages) and involves only what the original ending's details, so that your version can be read as if swapped with the original? Or will it be a longer arc that involves an entire plot itself, with complications and climax and so forth? After all, you're saying you want to rewrite the ending, but a story ending does not have a "midpoint". You might be not "rewriting an ending", but rather "writing a new final arc". The requirements for those things are vastly different.

And if you are hoping to match the original source for a subjective quality like awesomeness, it would be very helpful for you to explain what you perceive that quality to mean, then ask your prospective audience to explain their perception of that quality, and compare the explanations so that you know where your ideas match and where they don't.

[Agasa]

I'd intend it to be read as swapped with the original, but going into considerably more detail, so i'd imagine that it'd be a (not too short) one-shot. The original ending is a few minutes of present, followed by distant future in the very end of the series - it's surely not qualified as an arc, final or otherwise. The proper final arc is satisfying.

Awesomeness in TTGL... It's hard to define, but it's a mix of jarring surprises and utterly cliched (and extremely unplausible) moments. The real fuel of it is how over-the-top everything played up, to the point of making you ignore the fact you saw the plot point from miles back, or how impossible it is, and having you watching slack-jawed from the awe - for short, it runs on cool. Enjoyment of the series all hangs on this delicate balance, and sometimes it even misses the mark - Some scenes at the island-school felt very narmy to me, for example. To manage and hit it myself sounds hard.


I envy the Halbrian duo for being so close-knit. In real time, as i'm writing this, they've been fleshing out the Sasaki-Haruhi idea in front of our eyes, in IRC. I'm eager to see how it'll turn out.

I had a few ideas about the fic, both minor and major plot points. I'll write them in a minute.

[KLSymph]

I'd intend it to be read as swapped with the original, but going into considerably more detail, so i'd imagine that it'd be a (not too short) one-shot.

An arc doesn't have to be long, though it's usually associated with length. Actually, a one-shot can encompass an entire arc, which is just the sequence that shows a story change--the introduction, pursuit, and achievement of a goal, for instance. The important thing is that an ending cannot encompass an entire arc. That's not how endings work; they don't have midpoints or plot points--plot doesn't really happen in the ending, which is why endings are very short. Since you are thinking about plot, I believe you're not trying to swap the original ending with a rewritten ending, but instead are trying to swap the original ending with a new final arc. If you're trying to write an arc, but you think you're trying to do "a rewrite of the ending", that conflict between action and intention (and between expectations for each) might be one of the reasons the writing doesn't come naturally.

So I'll ask again. Are you writing a new ending? Or a new final arc?

Awesomeness in TTGL... It's hard to define, but it's a mix of jarring surprises and utterly cliched (and extremely unplausible) moments. The real fuel of it is how over-the-top everything played up, to the point of making you ignore the fact you saw the plot point from miles back, or how impossible it is, and having you watching slack-jawed from the awe - for short, it runs on cool.

Okay, and now does anyone else have thoughts on it? I'd help, but I've never actually seen Gurren Lagann.

[Agasa]

I had a few ideas about the fic, both minor and major plot points. I'll write them in a minute.

The "minute" turned out quite long. Sorry about that. I think i'm trying to write a new arc, after all. It'd be quite different from the others, and feature mostly Simon on a solo adventure, i guess, but it's another arc.
The original ending, even if short, encompasses a long span of in-universe time, so i guess it's alright.

About the ideas i collected (very spoiler-dense for the series, beware), from which i hope to form an outline like Durandall said:

Spoiler: ShowHide

We start from when the anime leaves off, pre-distant-future, because this depressing future is exactly what we want to avert. Nia is just wed, she disappears, Simon is all enlightened and at peace with the universe, gives up the Core Drill, the Spiral and his desire to see her again.

Yeah, right. Simon isn't really all that happy, even if he doesn't realize so in the surface - you can't give up the love of your life like that. Simon, in the original, at this point leaves to Walk the Earth with his trusted companion, Boota the mole-pig. I suppose we could diverge here, with, possibly...

a visit of Kamina in his dreams. I'm sure the big brother would not just sit watching in this situation. Simon needs a good nice shake, because he once again forgot how things are supposed to go. Kamina didn't teach him to forget, surrender to the inevitability, and let bygones be bygones. He taught him to kick reason to the curb, do the impossible, and most importantly, go and punch the universe in the face to get what was stolen from you, be it freedom, watching bathing ladies, or the love of your life.

"So, Simon! Do you want to keep running away? You know as well as me that Nia isn't here waiting for you, otherwise we would be having a load of fun together; she looked like a nice type from up here. The choice is yours, kid - keep bumming around all day long, or move your ass and do something about it!"
This could be a nice speech given with a half-smile, followed by a dream-punch on the face.

Now, the problems start. Simon would get his resolve back, because Kamina tends to work like that - the next steps would plausibly be 1) get Nia back and 2) live happily ever after.

1) is going to be tricky.
First of all, I need a "one-shot" way, something that can't be repeated, or you'd make it possible for everyone to revive their dead. Everyone in the final episode agrees it's bad, and it's true.
Secondly, I need a way that doesn't use Spiral Power at all. For the daring people who're reading this without knowing the series, Spiral Power is, for short, condensed manliness and fighting spirit used to power mecha. If too much of it is consumed, it'll form an universe-destroying singularity. Simon could revive anyone using Spiral Power alone, but it'd be dangerous for the aforementioned risk.

Methods to revive Nia: here is where i draw a blank on the "awesomeness" factor so ingrained in the series. The only constant factor i see is Leeron (the resident smart guy) researching it - as for the result he might reach (keeping in mind my "drawbacks" are strictly doylist):

1) Going to the underworld, snatching her, bringing her back. If the afterlife is a locus of our beliefs, then if Simon believes it enough, it's all solved. He's the best digger ever, he'll dig there and back twice. Drawbacks: it might consume Spiral, and i don't have a clear idea of what he'd find there once he actually gets there. If he finds just her, it might feel anticlimactic, plus nothing prevents everyone else from doing it and bring their dead back. Also, i'm afraid of being sued by Dante.

2) Finding an artificial way to split Simon's unparalleled Spiral power in two, recreate Nia with it, and infusing her with one half of it, to keep her alive. Nobody else would be able to do it, and survive, so that part is averted. Drawbacks: it might consume some Spiral. 

All these ways don't involve Boota - it might be useful, so i'll keep him in mind. You never know.

Alternatively, two other ways for the story to go:
1) They kiss, she simply doesn't disappear, much to Simon's surprise. She's waiting a baby from him, and the bond between them is so strong, she's being actively supported by Simon's power. Risks being so short it's terrible, but the WAFF is unparalleled.

2) This one was strongly inspired by Durandall, so i'd feel like a thief to do it this way: Simon and the gang, after everything is done, go back in time, rescue her just before the events that led to her demise start, substitute her with the clone that was rigged to die. Everyone back to the future, real!Nia and Simon marry, babies ever after.

[Halbarad]

Bit off-topic for the specific Gurren Lagann idea being forwarded here, but Brian and I have gone through a fairly typical (for us, at least) idea exploration for the Haruhi/Sasaki idea above given as an example. I've cleaned up the logs and posted it below, as an example of a good process to run through to move an idea from 'single scene' to 'fic idea'. The idea in question here isn't terribly complex, but it does help to demonstrate how to recognize and fill in some of the gaps needed to set up a plausible explanation for where you want to go with an idea.

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Spoiler: ShowHide

16:46 <@Kuyou> We have the premise/goal scenes -- somehow, Sasaki and Haruhi are friends in the Brigade.
16:46 <@Kuyou> In order to get there, the first obstacle is getting Sasaki out of her existing school and into Kitago.
16:46 <@Kuyou> The proposed idea is that some drama at her school gets it turned back into a boys-only school.
16:46 <@Yukari-sama> Right. The initial suggestions for getting Sasaki out of Kitago are fine - boyfriend trouble, possible interference from espers, etc. That doesn't trouble me too much.
16:47 <@Yukari-sama> er, out of her current school.
16:47 <@Kuyou> Which may or may not be directly related to Sasaki, even.
16:47 <@Kuyou> I like veering away from esperinterference if possible.
16:47 <@Yukari-sama> Fair enough.
16:47 <@Kuyou> If we make it a plot on the part of the espers, we then need to justify that plot.
16:47 <@Kuyou> Ie., they need motivations, and what exactly are they trying to accomplish?
16:47 <@Yukari-sama> Yeah. Which means espervillainy on -someone's- part.
16:48 <@Yukari-sama> So avoiding that, fair enough.
16:48 <@Kuyou> "Someone's a jerk," and pinning that on a random guy at school (or even remarkably intolerant group of teachers or something), gets the job done.
16:48 <@Kuyou> We don't need to involve Haruhi( or Sasaki?)'s powers even.
16:48 <@Yukari-sama> I actually like the idea of Sasaki being the cause, even if indirectly. Gives her more surface uniquness and gives her a bit more draw for Haruhi, too.
16:49 <@Yukari-sama> Doesn't have to be an overriding element (any more than Koizumi being a transfer student was) but it's a slight kick that helps.
16:50 <@Kuyou> Okay.  In that case, we go with Sasaki rejecting Student X, and him taking it especially badly, and then raising support with a few mysogynistic jerks.  Add in some unsympathetic teachers, and Sasaki not seeing a reason to apologize for them being jerks just to fit in, and instead of being some sweeping policy change for the school, she's instead been 'politely requested' to leave.
16:50 <@Yukari-sama> Works well, I think.
16:50 <@Kuyou> Okay.  So, we've got the first bullet down.  So....
16:50 <@Yukari-sama> Step two, why not Kyouko's school? Overeager esperosity?
16:51 <@Yukari-sama> Doesn't necessarily need to be anything major, but.
16:51 <@Kuyou> Thinking that, yeah.
16:51  * Yukari-sama nods.
16:51 <@Kuyou> But -- before it's even an issue (and this is probably also the opening scene if we do traditional 1st person Kyon-PoV), he's studying at home with Haruhi.  Sasaki's feeling a bit down, so calls him just to chat.
16:52 <@Kuyou> Then either Imouto answers the phone and mood-crashes with, "It's Sasaki-nee!" or maybe Haruhi even answers the phone herself.
16:53 <@Yukari-sama> Mmm, Haruhi answering seems a bit odd, unless it's Kyon's cell and he's left it out on the table or something.
16:53 <@Kuyou> That could work.
16:53 <@Yukari-sama> Dunno about you, but I certainly never tried to answer the phone when over at friends' houses.
16:53 <@Kuyou> I could go either way on this one -- but it being Haruhi and her being a bit cold to Sasaki before she hears what's going on gives Haruhi a reason to want to make up for it could work, too.
16:53 <@Kuyou> Well, we're both reasonable people.
16:53 <@Kuyou> This is Haruhi.
16:53 <@Yukari-sama> ...point.
16:53 <@Yukari-sama> But even so.
16:53 <@Kuyou> So his cell.
16:54  * Yukari-sama nods.
16:54 <@Kuyou> Haruhi answers without checking the caller, maybe thinking it's Koizumi (this can be seeded if Kyon was expecting a call from him or something).
16:54 <@Yukari-sama> She can figure it's one of the other Brigade members calling him for something, and she'd told them she'd be busy with Kyon and not to interrupt - so she grabs the phone so she can chew them out.
16:55 <@Kuyou> Right.  So she's a bit hostile, mildly snaps at Sasaki before she realizes who she's talking to.
16:55 <@Kuyou> (This might actually work better from Haruhi's PoV).
16:55 <@Kuyou> She feels a bit bad about being so forceful, so backs off and ... talks to Sasaki?  Hands the phone to Kyon?
16:56 <@Kuyou> If it's her PoV, Kyon can be tied up helping his sister with something in another room.
16:56  * Yukari-sama nods.
16:56 <@Kuyou> Maybe her bike got a flat tire.
16:56 <@Kuyou> So he's out of earshot in front of the house.
16:56  * Yukari-sama nods.
16:56 <@Kuyou> Haruhi explains that, Sasaki says she can call back later.  Haruhi offers to take a message?
16:57 <@Yukari-sama> Sasaki sounds strained, just mentioned she was hoping to talk to him, no need to take a message.
16:57 < Muphrid> The way this is going, with Kyon not in the room at the time, Haruhi could get Sasaki to transfer in without Kyon even knowing until he runs into her.
16:57 <@Yukari-sama> Well, the theory is that this is still prior to Sasaki having to leave her school.
16:57 <@Kuyou> Haruhi doesn't like the idea of Kyon talking to Sasaki alone -- suggests that _all three of them_ meet for coffee (or something) so she can keep an eye on them.
16:58 <@Yukari-sama> Yeah, I can see her setting that up. "Oh-- we were just studying, but if you wanted to talk to him, why don't we all meet up at that cafe near the station? Taking a break wouldn't be bad anyway!"
16:58 <@Kuyou> "This sounds important -- maybe you should talk about it in person!"  "Well ... that might be nice, but--"  "Right--  The three of us can meet up at the cafe in front of Kitaguchi Station!  I've seen you there before, so you know where it is!"
16:59 <@Kuyou> Sasaki agrees, Kyon comes back into his room wiping the grease from his hands and muttering about bike-chains, Haruhi tells him they're going to the cafe.
16:59 <@Kuyou> "Oh, great, on me, I expect?"
17:00 <@Yukari-sama> "You haven't gotten a penalty - _yet_. If you keep it up, one can be arranged!"
17:00 <@Kuyou> "*sigh* Of course.  At least I just finished retuning my bike while working on Imouto's."
17:00 <@Kuyou> *starwipe to next scene*
17:01 <@Kuyou> So, Haruhi doesn't even tell Kyon that Sasaki's going to be there instead of the rest of the Brigade.
17:01  * Yukari-sama nods. Suggest we back away from quite this level of detail though - so Sasaki is hesitant with Haruhi there, but decides to relate her troubles anyway.
17:02 <@Kuyou> Yeah.
17:02 <@Kuyou> Haruhi respects Sasaki's determination and has sympathy for the crap she's dealing with, makes the suggestion at that point?
17:03 <@Yukari-sama> Shares some info about how the whole Student X thing is going down, but she's trying to fight the good fight and not giving in. Don't think Haruhi makes the suggestion to come to Kitago yet, but she'd probably offer the Brigade's help or support if she needs it.
17:03 <@Yukari-sama> BUt it'd definitely win points with Haruhi to hear that.
17:03 <@Kuyou> Hmmm.  Does Haruhi offer her phone number to Sasaki?
17:03 <@Yukari-sama> Yeah, that works.
17:03 <@Kuyou> "If you've got trouble, talk to me!  :D (Instead of Kyon. >:|)
17:04 <@Yukari-sama> So that's starting to establish some bond between the two of them (if a shaky one), which gives us the grounds for Haruhi to extend the invite when the news about "GTFO Sasaki" comes in.
17:04 <@Kuyou> Character development ensues; Sasaki doesn't mind the idea of being more friendly with Haruhi, so checks in ever few days.  After a week or two, she gets the 'suggestion' from the school staff that she transfer out.
17:05 <@Yukari-sama> Thought: maybe she tags along for a mystery search or two?
17:05 <@Kuyou> Well, that certainly moves her toward joining the Brigade (even before transfering schools).
17:06 <@Yukari-sama> Haruhi might give her an unofficial affiliation - "first member/remote branch of the SOS Brigade!"
17:06 <@Kuyou> Yeah, until the part about her leaving the other school.
17:06 <@Yukari-sama> Yeah.
17:06 <@Kuyou> Anyway, Sasaki transfers a month down the line, and it's pretty much a given she joins the Brigade.
17:06  * Yukari-sama nods.
17:06 <@Kuyou> We kind of killed most of the tension between her and Haruhi already.
17:07 <@Yukari-sama> Not necessarily.
17:07 <@Yukari-sama> Having Sasaki as an acquaintance at a distance, Haruhi's gotten used to.
17:07 <@Yukari-sama> Now, however, she's in constant proximity to Kyon - more so if she joins Haruhi and Kyon's class - and it's not quite as manageable.
17:07 <@Yukari-sama> Ratchets the tension back up again.
17:08 <@Kuyou> Okay.  So Haruhi suggests the transfer, just assuming Sasaki will end up in some other class.
17:08 <@Kuyou> Unpleasant surprise!
17:08 <@Yukari-sama> She has to alter her habits - can't go running out of the classroom at every break and lunch now - that's time Sasaki could be working on Kyon!
17:08 <@Kuyou> ...and maybe being Haruhi, she also didn't tell Kyon that Sasaki was transfering.
17:09 <@Kuyou> So she's introduced to the class, Kyon blurts out her name because he's surprised, and Okabe (that good-natured soul) places Sasaki next to Kyon, so she can get help from someone she's familiar with.
17:09 <@Kuyou> (Distantly:  Kunikida: "DAMN IT!")
17:09 <@Yukari-sama> Maybe not immediately, though - might be that she comes back from lunch a couple of days in and sees Sasaki just getting up from talking with Kyon.
17:09  * Yukari-sama snrks.
17:10 <@Yukari-sama> If we're not purely Haruhi-PoV, this could cause an increase in esper-pressure on Kyon, too.
17:10 <@Kuyou> This is wreaking havok on Haruhi's ability to pretend she's not interested in Kyon.
17:10 < Muphrid> Could there be an element here (in general) of Haruhi trying to be less possessive and doing so by allowing Sasaki and Kyon to get closer again (but only as much as she can stand)?
17:11 <@Kuyou> Yeah, I see a good opportunity for that, too.
17:11 <@Kuyou> Sasaki transfered schools, and historically attended cram-school, too.
17:11 <@Yukari-sama> Possibly she could grow to that, but I think it'd take some showing of that in the course of the story.
17:11 <@Kuyou> So, she could benefit from a study partner.  And she and Kyon used to study together anyway.
17:12 <@Yukari-sama> I can actually see it coming to a head with Kyon, honestly.
17:12 <@Kuyou> This one's not so hard for Haruhi (except that it totally kills her romantic subversion of the study sessions), since she can easily assert that she's studying with Kyon already.
17:12 <@Yukari-sama> Heh.
17:13 <@Yukari-sama> Haruhi gets increasingly agitated, which in turn causes Koizumi to lean on Kyon more and more, until finally Kyon has to talk to Haruhi about it directly.
17:13 <@Yukari-sama> I don't think it results in a Haruhi confession necessarily, but she realizes she needs to crap or get off the pot, so to speak, so she tries to back off a little bit.
17:14 <@Kuyou> She can couch it in terms of the Brigade--  Oh, no, she can't.
17:14 <@Kuyou> She already brought Sasaki into the Brigade.
17:14 <@Yukari-sama> Yyyup.
17:15 <@Yukari-sama> I think this scenario is absolutely going to force Haruhi to confront her feelings about Kyon, but not necessarily bring it up with him directly.
17:15 <@Kuyou> If we're not using Kyon's PoV exclusively, there's a good chance for Haruhi to confess her feelings about Kyon to Sasaki.
17:16 <@Kuyou> Ironically, she might be more comfortable with that than telling Kyon (yet).
17:16 <@Yukari-sama> I could see that, yeah. Honestly I think it'd start out semi-confrontational, and Sasaki actually calms her down and worms more out of her.
17:16 <@Kuyou> Sasaki could be wholly supportive, which might make for a great chance for them to really bond.
17:16 <@Kuyou> Yeah.
17:17 <@Yukari-sama> And that leads into our final scene. Except that now Haruhi can't avoid stealing glances at Kyon while they're playing.
17:17 <@Kuyou> Sasaki can also point out that Haruhi can't just string Kyon along forever, and that she knows he's more than a bit stubborn himself -- if she wants things to work out, there has to be some give to offset the take.
17:17  * Yukari-sama nods.
17:17 <@Kuyou> But she'll support her other good friend.
17:17 <@Kuyou> Leading into the final scene.
17:18 <@Kuyou> (Which is where we started.)
17:18 <@Yukari-sama> Looks good to me. =)
17:18 <@Kuyou> Okay.
17:18 <@Kuyou> Log it up, call it a day.

Also, as a note, neither of us really plan to write this idea, so if someone else wants to pick it up and run with it you're welcome to do so. =)

[Jon]

Speaking as a TTGL fan,

Spoiler: ShowHide

The only viable option from your four choices is the second #1: she simply doesn't die. The mythology of the show does not provide for any kind of afterlife or underworld, not even considering Simon's vision of Kamina in episode 26. You could introduce one, but it would take a lot of selling. As for the 'clone' thing, I don't believe this is supported in the show; antispiral!Nia isn't a clone.

If you want to involve Leeron's science, have him somehow preserving the Anti-Spiral homeworld (Kandor in a bottle, anyone?), since it's known that antispiral!Nia's existence depends upon the Anti-Spiral homeworld.

To be honest, I think your best option at this point is to, as Jason suggested, kill this darling idea. It's possible to do what you want it to do, but it's going to be really hard to do it without running against theme.

Spoiler: ShowHide

However, if you want to go with it, the simplest way of keeping "she just doesn't die" from being too short is to have the explanation for it introduce more conflict. If Leeron's keeping the Anti-Spiral homeworld in a jar, the way Rossieu kept Genome's head, what could this fact do if it gets out?