Crazy/Stupid situations

[Nkari]

Ever seen your characters do something so stupid (in-game wise) that you just had to laugh at them?

Chip the Rouge; rolls 2 on move silently check, grimlocks run around the corner and smash him unconsious, Draco the Ranger swings his great sword in the mine tunnel, rolls a 1, greatsword smashes on wall, half breaks off, lands in Chip's stomach.

^_^

[Dracos]

...

You mean roll poorly in a dice based game and have bad things happen to them?

I tend to find that more 'oi' then 'haha'.  It's also why I tend to prefer diceless systems where comedic errors more stem from...
Oh...player's making comedic errors.

That I find amusing as a GM...  I don't tend to find laughing at a guy who finally had the 1/20 chance of something bad happening whenever he does something happen.  And as a player, I know few things are more aggrevating then doing stuff that should be a cakewalk for you and finding that a simple roll of the dice turned you into an incompetent.

Fearless Leader

[Nkari]

I admit your'e right, but you don't know my players...`Rat does. They couldn't think their way out of a situation if their lives depended on it. They think that RPGs are all about smashing orks with swords!

[Carthrat]

"The skill of a player is reflected in the skill of his GM.."

[Dracos]

Well said Rat.

Fearless Leader

[Anonymous]

*hails the 'Rat!*

Hear hear!

[Rezantis]

In the way of bad dice rolls, probably the worst one I've ever heard of was a WoD mage who died in his own prelude...

He was trying to chase someone across some rooftops, and they leaped over a two metre gap between buildings.  So our athletic hero tries to follow them... and...

...botches his roll, tripping and slamming into the side of the building.  Whoops.

So he tries to make a dex check and grab onto the edge of the roof he'd just failed the jump too... and botches again.

Oops.

So, he fell down a few stories... and tried an effect to slow his fall.  Vulgar effect, with witnesses (there were people at the bottom)... which he botches, scores a stack of paradox, scores a backlash, and injures himself.

So he tries to twist himself around... and... you guessed it, botches.  Extra damage!

Then he hits the ground, rolls a large stack of damage, and utterly fails his damage soak roll.

It wasn't quite enough to kill him, just enough to render him unconscious.

Just enough to put his character in hospital for a couple of months.

That is what we call unlucky dice rolling.  :)

[Alucard]

...

You mean roll poorly in a dice based game and have bad things happen to them?

I tend to find that more 'oi' then 'haha'.  It's also why I tend to prefer diceless systems where comedic errors more stem from...
Oh...player's making comedic errors.

That I find amusing as a GM...  I don't tend to find laughing at a guy who finally had the 1/20 chance of something bad happening whenever he does something happen.  And as a player, I know few things are more aggrevating then doing stuff that should be a cakewalk for you and finding that a simple roll of the dice turned you into an incompetent.

Fearless Leader

Diceless systems! Are you INSANE??!! Half the fun of D&D is getting that perfect role that lands you a two-handed sword +4 or some huge amount of hit points or a one hit kill...

[Dracos]

It's amusing sure when it goes well.  And entertaining for more short term adventures.  For long term though, I prefer some stability.

Diceless all the way there.

Fearless Leader

[Alucard]

Oh man I can't believe what I'm hearing. Stability? That's crazy talk. Half the fun is never knowing whether you're going to be eaten by some huge monster in the next room that you roll low against! Its called chance, and its a big factor in real life AND RPGs...

[Dracos]

Oh I agree.  I do utilize chance and occassionally dice out of view of the players.  But for all intents and purposes, as far as everyone knows, it's a diceless system.  There is no, "Yeah, I rolled a twenty.  It's a perfect attack.  Rolling damage."

Instead it's a:
"Genaris narrowed his eyes as he reached swiftly for the pouch at his side, words of eldritch lore spilling forth from his lips as he manipulated his long fingers through his spell components, grabbing for a bit of bat guano and ash before lifting his hands to gesture forth at the approaching enraged horde, a wall of fire leaping forth from his hands.

OOC: Basic fireball spell gm.  Deducting a spell from daily limit."

That runs far more entertainingly, and also deserves more credit.  Dice can be used effectively, but more oft than not they just slow gameplay and end up being annoying.

Fearless Leader

[Alucard]

Oh, I see what you're saying. I'm totally for roleplaying and not letting the dice rolling distract from the RP in RPG. But at the same time dice rolling can be fun to if its seperated from the RPing. For instance, right after that spiel you gave you quickly roll the die to determine how effective the spell was. It doesn't take that much time, and jt adds a great amount of chance that can leave a character, no matter how powerful, at the mercy of a lesser force and vice versa.

As for the game taking longer I played a dungeon when I was a kid that took several years and I know people that are still playing campaigns from when they were kids. If short is what your looking for then you can do that to of course. The dice rolling does not eat up that much time compared to the rest of the game and can be kind of fun.

[Dracos]

I know, and have run such/played such myself.  It's generally a matter of preference.  I find I'd prefer the minimal level of dice rolling possible.  Sure, some chance should be there, but it's better to have the gm handle it.  Players I think tend to spend more time role playing rather than roll playing when they find they aren't allowed to hide behind a dice at all.  Moreso, we still see that realm of greater forces being topled or beaten up by lesser forces in the 'diceless' systems that I often run and play, but it tends to come across as even more believable as players don't look to the dice in betrayal but more smack their own heads at their real mistakes.

Both are good and have their place.  I just try to give all the time to role playing over dice rolling I can.  I have seen, and I know you've probably seen it to, battles which are simply an hour or two of dice rolling with nothing else.  Or a player spending a good fifteen minutes rolling dice.  Sure, good gm's disencourage that, but I don't like to see it at all.  Diceless also tends to work better online in general.  Just naturally goes better towards it if you are working with a message board rpg.

Fearless Leader

[Alucard]

I wasn't considering online play. But in person I think giving players dice gives them a sense of power and be able to have  a part in their own fate aside from simple decision making.

Some diceless systems give the GM way too much power. That's not good. Even if a player makes a mistake there should be a chance of them not getting screwed for it.

[Dracos]

Heh, an old discussion that is.  A good gm arbitrates and composes.  Sure, diceless systems can be abused by bad GMs, and even have more natural ability to be abused by bad GMs.  On the other hand, bad GMs rarely get return visits from players.  Also, doesn't take much for a GM to do the same in a real game.  The gm, theoretically, cannot cheat, as they make the rules and rulings, and therefore could just as happily be viciously punishing characters behind the facade of dice and screen as well.

Truthfully, for amateur GMs, I recommend having the dice and ordered system set out.  It's easier to run, less chance for abuse and generally, while not all systems are great, it at least gives you some nice guidelines.  The sign of a moderately experienced GM is that they have house rules.  Maybe just one or two, but that they know the system and are comfortable enough to improvise with it.  The really good GM's go a step or two beyond that.  They have their styles.  Their quirks.  They know what they like to run and how to run it well.  They know their house rules and have sets built easily for each game when it's appropriate.

*shrugs*  Generally, if you aren't experienced, you shouldn't be messing with the rules.  And you shouldn't be trying to run your own damn system.  Doesn't work well.

Fearless Leader