The big one: Character discussions!

[Anastasia]

Usagi loves Serenity. Seems simple enough, but it's a complex relationship due to them interacting on so many levels. There's the idea that Serenity saw in her a potential that no one else did, and gave her the chance to realise it, something Usagi is immensely grateful for - there's no doubt that becoming Sailor Moon was the most important event in her life, and despite all the trauma and dangers, Usagi could never go back to the blissfully ignorant carefree girl she was before. Serenity gave her the chance to grow in a way no one else ever could - Ikkuko might point to the moral sketchiness of choosing a 13 year old girl to fight your battles for you, but Usagi has no qualms at all over the choice.

Really? That's interesting - Usagi has no desire to all? If she had the perfect chance to become normal and innocent again, she wouldn't take it?

(the short timescale of this game really boggles the mind at times)

Doesn't it? It's an effect of OOC dragging and time elapse, but it feels like nearly years.

Then Usagi spent a month and a half (the short timescale of this game really boggles the mind at times) with Queen Serenity effectively living in her head. From sharing their dreams to the sure knowledge that Serenity was there, no matter what, I honestly don't know if anyone could ever match that level of closeness to Usagi. Serenity is Usagi's most treasured friend and confidante, and as happy as she is for the woman to be alive again, it's hard not to miss the closeness they shared in that period.

Mmm. That makes a lot of sense and ties into thing. Serenity the trusting fairy godmother and guardian angel rolled into one, eh? Do you think this has affected any of her other relationships, or even Mamoru? (Just fishing .)

To be honest, the Queen/Senshi relationship is quite effectively eclipsed by the above. Usagi's only as deferential to Serenity as her regal demeanour naturally draws forth. Considering Serenity to be effectively family, Usagi doesn't have much time to stand on ceremony with her, and considers it her place to protect Serenity not just from physical threats, but also more subtle threats - Serenity already gave her life to one Kingdom, and that spurred Usagi's vehement opposition to her becoming ruler of Gaia - she wants Serenity (and her daughter, dammit!) to have a peaceful life without everything hanging on her shoulders. And it's partly a simple selfish desire to not be parted from the woman.

Mmm. What do you consider more 'subtle threats', Usagi? Further, what about if she wanted the roll of Queen of Gaia or something close to it, or if Princess Serenity wants to stay there forever?

Does this bond run to Princess Serenity much, and if so, how?

In summary, Serenity represents everything Usagi aspires to - it's her dearest wish to live up to Serenity's example and the faith shown in her. It's a bit sad in a way that becoming Sailor Moon and knowing Serenity pushed Usagi away from her previous dreams of emulating her mother's role in life, but she doesn't love Ikkuko any less, she just wants to realise the potential she now knows she has, and Serenity represents the pinnacle of that.

I want to make a joke about Serenity turning Usagi into Reiko mark 3.

Anyway, does that mean she wants to abandon her old dream entirely, or try to do both, or...? ? What's her mindset on all of that now? How about romance, though I wonder if Mamoru had a bigger impact there.

Usagi's strong ideas about government by and of the people notwithstanding.

Aaaaw! It's like a social liberal looking up to a paternal autocrat! So cute! <_< How does she reconcile Serenity's kingdom and her own ideas on the matter?

Thank you for the mental image of cheerleader Serenity. That's just adorable.

I find pairing this image with cheerleader Makoto has most satisfactory results, Usa-chan.

Thank you for the mental image of cheerleader Serenity. That's just adorable.

Sure. It was in the first Misuki-Hotaru omake (Hence why I suspect you don't remember it, and it was done in t he evening as well.). Makoto confronted Serenity over the entire affair and it got kinda stupid.  (I misread some of what Makoto was getting at, as well as being way to too unsubtle with motivations.)

[Anastasia]

As her fighting instincts were encouraged, Makoto's own bent on being a hero(ine) was nurtured-and she's all about strength and sacrifice, as it turns out. She's old fashioned. A knight in a short skirt with a bigass sword, or a Samurai-ko.

Pretty much. A bit of my mental association with Sailor Jupiter is a stylished and romanticized samurai. It fits rather well overall, and begs the question of why I haven't run a samurai omake at some point with Makoto and Beck. Hell, I should brush up and do that.

Makoto can treat her normally, but ultimately, when she's made up her mind, Makoto defers to what the Queen wants, confident that Serenity would never betray her principles.

Question - what if this creates a moral, ethical or emotional conflict of a high degree? To shoot the moon and choose something obviously unlikely and extreme, what if she needed Jupiter to stop or hurt or kill Hotaru?

No comments on the rest, since you pretty much knocked 'em  down well.[/code]

[Anastasia]

Something I forgot to mention, in the What If thread for the last game (which sadly died without being finished) you mentioned the possibility of keeping Queen Serenity around as an NPC, but we all agreed it caused too many problems to be worth it.

As an aside to the question raised here? Part of it was that the bulk of good what if's were early/mid game heavy. I didn't have quite as many for the Shadow Tokyo Arc, and very little for the Zirae arc. The latter was rather inflexible with the basic design as it was, and the former, while ripe in the extreme, had such a modifying factor in Chibi Usa that it was limited therein.

Though I should've asked the what if question of, "What if Chibi Usa died/stayed dead?" Oh well.

It's an interesting to compare the two under that context. There was the concern that Serenity would drive a wedge between Usagi and Ikkuko (What's that, Mom? Can't handle that I'm a magical girl? That's alright, I've got Moon Mom here and she's okay with it!), but with Usagi not being any sort of reincarnated Princess, her existing family relationships are unthreatened despite her immense closeness to Serenity. Plus Ikkuko herself took the Sailor Moon bit a fair deal better here than she did in the last game (let's just hope we never have to find out if a lesbian daughter would freak her out as much as last time).

Pretty much. The dual mother thing brings another dimension entirely into it, versus just being a close roll model and friend. It's easier to integrate this Serenity and Ikkuko peacefully than for the previous Serenity. I didn't think Hal was going to turn it into THAT sort of thing with Ikkuko, but it does bear mentioning.

I wonder how she would take a gay bunny rabbit...>_>

The worry that Usagi would be overshadowed by Serenity from the last game is also dodged here, although not entirely - Usagi has no pretensions of becoming Queen of anything, far less rebuilding the Moon Kingdom, so there's no need to worry about Serenity stepping on her toes. But she does eclipse Usagi as a leader/figurehead - not so much with the ex youma to whom she's just a nice lady, but definitely among the senshi. Much as I hate to admit it, Usagi has pretty much failed in being a leader to the other girls, so having Serenity to rally behind keeps us together better than we would without her.

This wasn't quite such a worry in my books for game one. Usagi was quite willful even at that point, dreams of rebuilding the Moon or not. Anyway, point about no conflict on Moon Kingdom routes. To the more interesting second part of the paragraph? Yeah. This is partly due to the game structure and character interactions(The way you and Hotaru tend to get along has a big role here, I think.), and party a side effect of having Serenity around. It's hard to be the leader when Queen Serenity has an active role - much like it would be for Princess Serenity if Queen Serenity was still alive when the Princess became a Queen.

The third point is entirely true(Too lazy to copy the last paragraph.).  Serenity was a bad case with potential Space Criminal baddies coming up, and Zirae would've needed fudging or work if Queenie was still around. This game is rigged up so that this isn't a huge problem, and quite deliberately. Very knowledgeable about the plot NPCs need to not be THAT available without earning it, or it's easy for them to become a crutch.

That aside? The truly main reason that I didn't keep Serenity 1 around was that it would be too much of a headache for those reasons and others. I also didn't want a huge NPC distraction there on top of what may have been coming up. You girls had more than enough on your plates after Metallia - especially Usagi and Rei, who were already becoming RP dominate early on. Minako as well, doubtless to say. Makoto did/should have, but...nevermind, we know that old away story!

[Bean Bandit]

Question - what if this creates a moral, ethical or emotional conflict of a high degree? To shoot the moon and choose something obviously unlikely and extreme, what if she needed Jupiter to stop or hurt or kill Hotaru?

Makoto's saved by the spin Queen Serenity put on her first order. She'd save Hotaru, no matter the cost. She'd probably give up on saving herself if Hotaru couldn't be rescued, rather than killed.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that follows for everyone-if Makoto is ever forced to kill once of the Senshi, she'd probably die afterward. Not even in an angsty burst, just quiet resolution and simple penance.

[Asrana]

In fact, I'm pretty sure that follows for everyone-if Makoto is ever forced to kill once of the Senshi, she'd probably die afterward. Not even in an angsty burst, just quiet resolution and simple penance.

There's a whole long established stand off argument here that I won't go into, but would like noted that I've won most of the time! >_>

[Anastasia]

Yeah. Dad's...pretty much been a non-figure, honestly said. While he was supposed to be the 'involved' parent, it eventually came down to a 'smile and nod' relationship most of the time. Taking me out for dinner when I learned to teleport was the final epic moment of 'He's taking this WAY too well...'

Overall though, Dad's nice, and a little nuts hwen he gets drunk, too. Though Hotaru's never seen him directly in such a state. Still. Beer chicken? What the hell?

Mmm. A lot of this comes down to how I tend to see the man's basic personality. He's achingly normal and relaxed in his natural state - he has the life he wants and is quite content with it.  With him that translates to an almost unearthly calm and contentment, as well as a resiliancy to stay in that status quo.  Also, this is obviously the effect of the Tomoe Family dynamic developing in play.

The second part relates to the same. Anyone who's that well adjusted has to be suppressing -something-, even if it's just a wild and wacky side. See Germatou for the extreme of that view. Haven't you heard of beer batter chicken or shrimp or beer marinated hot dogs, Hotaru-chan?

This is admittely something of a cross cultural joke.

Chikako...I don't know why, maybe it's simply the involvement with Reiko, but she's my second favorite of the parental figures. She seemed relaxed enough to joke with us at least a little, and I'm almost tempted to ask after soemthing random and canon where Hotaru and she run across each other somewhere, just for the hell of it.

This is probably Reiko influence, yes. It also carries her in with a friend and in a unique way since she's both a family friend and a friend's mom. Spillover effect in simpler terms that leads to affection.

See also - dating a friend's ex.

---

As for the Serenity stuff?

Telling Hotaru to do what needed to be done put the ultimate trust and faith into the young Saturn. Even with her darkest impulses, her Queen saw fit to entrust such a heavy duty onto her. It's a justification, a philosophy and a moral quantry all in one.

I'll second the seeing more of her. Serenity's gonna be doin' the Senshi rounds, I imagine. For all that I suspect she's not quite as strong on the traits Hotaru mentioned - she is something of a fairy tale queen, remember.

[Anastasia]

In fact, I'm pretty sure that follows for everyone-if Makoto is ever forced to kill once of the Senshi, she'd probably die afterward. Not even in an angsty burst, just quiet resolution and simple penance.

Since we're in what if land anyway and I want to press the question? Let's say she had you do that and specifically instructed you not to commit suicide or die or whatever works to continue the internal conflict?

[Bean Bandit]

Since we're in what if land anyway and I want to press the question? Let's say she had you do that and specifically instructed you not to commit suicide or die or whatever works to continue the internal conflict?

I'd have to question her on her reasoning, as she didn't say it outright, but she left little room for doubt that defending the others at high personal cost was my role. If she was countermanding that for some reason, I'd feel entitled to ask why...though, if it was Hotaru she wanted killed or stopped, I'd trust her to have the right reasons, but I'd ignore explicit orders not to suicide.

I mean, How can you execute your closest friend in the whole world, and then have to explain to her mother and father why you did it, and still look yourself in the eye in the bathroom mirror?

[Ebiris]

Really? That's interesting - Usagi has no desire to all? If she had the perfect chance to become normal and innocent again, she wouldn't take it?

It is nicely ironic. In canon, Usagi's dearest wish granted by the Silver Crystal was for her and her friends to have their normal lives back (and incidentally live again after being brutally killed by those youma at the North Pole, in the case of her friends), where as here I think that taking away Usagi's powers would be the greatest price the Crystal could exact upon her.

If you'd asked Usagi before Gaia, she'd probably be okay with losing her powers once things with Jadeite were settled - it seemed that dealing with him was the real point of being a Sailor Senshi. But the Beast Lord changed that.

In all honesty, killing the Beast Lord was probably the most powerful event to ever happen to Usagi. Sure, beating Jadeite and recreating Gaia was certainly a far grander undertaking, but it was also fairly impersonal - few people will ever know or thank Usagi. On the other hand, she has earned the heartfelt gratitude of people like Janna and Princess Serenity, which certainly does mean a great deal to her. But can anything compare to slaying a millenia old spirit and freeing possibly millions of souls from an eternity of torture, physically feeling their joy and gratitude as they pass on? Not really. But it doesn't mean Usagi won't dedicate her life towards similar good deeds.

Mmm. That makes a lot of sense and ties into thing. Serenity the trusting fairy godmother and guardian angel rolled into one, eh? Do you think this has affected any of her other relationships, or even Mamoru? (Just fishing .)

Serenity's only influence on Usagi/Mamoru was to give them her blessing (kinda, by telling Tux to look for love elsewhere since the Princess might not be available) when she first appeared at the ball.

Usagi's relationship troubles with Mamoru only really boiled to the surface at Janna's prompting on Gaia, and between that and her breakup with him, Serenity was sadly unavailable while she recovered from being attacked by Jadeite.

Mmm. What do you consider more 'subtle threats', Usagi? Further, what about if she wanted the roll of Queen of Gaia or something close to it, or if Princess Serenity wants to stay there forever?

Does this bond run to Princess Serenity much, and if so, how?

The example given is pretty much the best one. Usagi would feel immensely cheated if she worked so hard on Serenity's behalf, and was finally able to help her live again by reuniting the Crystal, if Serenity was then immediately roped into ruling a world. She has an extremely low opinion of Gaia's "We need someone big and strong to tell us what to do!" tendancies, and doesn't want Serenity mixed up in that. They need to learn to solve their own problems, not dump them all on someone else's feet.

That really bugs her about Princess Serenity as well - the woman just spent nearly two decades being driven insane by Jadeite, and now she's being burdened with the governance of the planet which so easily let Jadeite do as he pleased to her.

Of course, she's got no problem at all with the Princess living on Gaia - it's her home, after all. I'll get more into my thoughts on her when you do her NPC post, but Usagi feels protective of the Princess, and likes her a lot, but they're not as close as she is to the Queen - how could they be? They haven't spent that much time together, far less having the Princess living in her head, after all.

I want to make a joke about Serenity turning Usagi into Reiko mark 3.

Anyway, does that mean she wants to abandon her old dream entirely, or try to do both, or...? ? What's her mindset on all of that now? How about romance, though I wonder if Mamoru had a bigger impact there.

Serenity mk 3, not Reiko!

Anyway, Usagi still wants to marry and have children. But it's no longer the be all and end all of her life. To be honest, she never thought she could accomplish more - she was happy to set her sights on being a housewife, since her mother seems happy, but she always felt a bit ashamed of herself for not having more ambition - goes with her modern ideals and not wanting to betray decades of women's lib, y'know!

Anyway, no spinster-superheroine Usagi - it's all about balance!

And Usagi certainly intends to start boy-hunting with a vengeance once she's over Mamoru, which isn't taking that long. This is the springtime of her youth, after all!

Aaaaw! It's like a social liberal looking up to a paternal autocrat! So cute! <_< How does she reconcile Serenity's kingdom and her own ideas on the matter?

Usagi would vote for Queen Serenity. <_<

She understands that Kingdoms were simply normal back then, and doesn't begrudge the past its ways. But it is the past - this is the 20th century and that shit just doesn't fly anymore. If Serenity started talking about how she could do a better job of running Tokyo, Usagi would encourage her to run for office (and probably have to assist in creating a fake identity), but any attempt to assume control just because she thinks she's best for the job? That'd be an awkward situation.

Fortunately, I don't think Serenity's the type. Considering her reaction when Usagi offered to return the Crystal, I suspect she's done with rulership.

Pretty much. The dual mother thing brings another dimension entirely into it, versus just being a close roll model and friend. It's easier to integrate this Serenity and Ikkuko peacefully than for the previous Serenity. I didn't think Hal was going to turn it into THAT sort of thing with Ikkuko, but it does bear mentioning.

I wonder how she would take a gay bunny rabbit...>_>

I wouldn't imagine it'd be conscious, just a subtle rift between Usagi and Ikkuko as she favoured spending time with Serenity.

And I thought the L-Usagi omake established Ikkuko is ok so long as I'm not a militant lesbian?

[Anastasia]

Character Entry #24

Nior

Source Material(s):

http://membres.lycos.fr/balderbombadil/rpg-mania/t-rpg/arc/Iga.jpg

A bit from Iga from Arc the Lad, as well as a lot of odds and ends from the genre thereof. Oddly I can't remember names for some stupid reason.

General: Nior was designed to be one side of a coin.

With the failure of Kensuke on many levels, I decided I needed to be more direct. Nior had been set for a goodly while - I'd had his image and general plot outline done for quite some time. However, he needed a contrast to further elaborate the differences between him and 'evil'. In this case, Arieta was achingly perfect for the role. The two are meant to be opposites; Nior is an honorable man who fell under Jadeite by a misplaced sense of loyalty and despair, while Arieta embraces what she is wholeheartedly.

With this broad statement outlined? Nior was meant to show another side of Gaia - those that go on with the Agency simply because it is all they have left. The Agency fills the holes those losses left, subsuming grief with fanatical purpose. The Agency wasn't just a government, for many, it was a very way of living.

Much like Gaia, Nior is defined by tragedies - the loss of his wife and child so many years ago, and a tedious, nether existance under Jadeite there after. To many he appears cold by this - stoic and unfeeling. Yet he showed his honor and many things that set him apart from Jadeite's other commanders, even when he battled the Sailor Senshi. His very first line was not a threat, but surprise and ruing the fact that the Sailor Senshi were mere children.

It's ironic. His apperance is of that of a fearsome giant - as close as a normal human build can be to inhuman.

Notes: Even if he ever so rarely shows it, Nior deeply cares about the Sailor Senshi. Makoto in particular he's partial to. Nior understands her all too well. He's also fond of Usagi and puts his faith in her completely now, and feels indebted to Ami, moreso because of the mixup in their last battle. He respects Hotaru but doesn't push her in the least. He does find Kotono rather tiring, but I can't blame him.

He's a natural protector. His actions in the crossover to Gaia exemplify that.

[Bean Bandit]

Mm. Lessee.

From the very start, that first punch to the stomach that Makoto landed that hurt her hand, Nior had her respect. Makoto isn't egotistical about her strength, but she KNOWS she's capable enough to at least make a good showing, even against someone of Nior's size, but there was obviously something beyond mere size at work.

When I think about the early interaction, I see it as Makoto not intellectually aware, but instinctively understanding him. She's only been aquainted with Uncle Taka (She remembers her father, but only in vague images. She WAS just a toddler) as a male influence, and Nior and Taka are similar...very similar. She just sort of understands that they'd look out for her.

He cemented her affections as an Uncle-Type after stepping out of character to express concern after Balder nearly burned Makoto to death. From then on, Makoto cared about the big guy, a lot. Though his stoicism never bothered her much-From her perspective, he's always been an 'actions speak louder than words' type.

[Ebiris]

Nior Stuff

Nior was a good change from Kensuke and Arieta, and certainly went a long way to humanising the Jade Legion, but he wasn't perfect - more than once did he flee while leaving a lower ranking youma to fight and die by herself. Usagi doesn't bring that up for the same reason she doesn't like to talk about frequently being the one to kill said youma, but it is noted.

That said, Nior had a pretty rough start after we purified him - I don't think anyone was especially happy with how that went, but he did manage to settle into a comfortable niche eventually - I think Janna played a big part in that, as someone we could more readily relate to, and we could then view Nior through the lens of her perceptions - her odd complaints about living with him made him more rounded than the eminently respectable but somewhat flat former general he was before.

Also, it's pretty scary how effective he is in combat despite being utterly bereft of magic. He managed to slam once of the Beast Lord's avatars around pretty well, and damn near splattered Balder one time (a 2-6 does help, just a pity our Prince dodged).

[Anastasia]

Mm. Lessee.

From the very start, that first punch to the stomach that Makoto landed that hurt her hand, Nior had her respect. Makoto isn't egotistical about her strength, but she KNOWS she's capable enough to at least make a good showing, even against someone of Nior's size, but there was obviously something beyond mere size at work.

When I think about the early interaction, I see it as Makoto not intellectually aware, but instinctively understanding him. She's only been aquainted with Uncle Taka (She remembers her father, but only in vague images. She WAS just a toddler) as a male influence, and Nior and Taka are similar...very similar. She just sort of understands that they'd look out for her.

He cemented her affections as an Uncle-Type after stepping out of character to express concern after Balder nearly burned Makoto to death. From then on, Makoto cared about the big guy, a lot. Though his stoicism never bothered her much-From her perspective, he's always been an 'actions speak louder than words' type.

This is all mostly true. They are similar, it's why they're sometimes hard to RP together. They strike me as friends once Taka gets over the initial impression, something I wish I'd gotten to play up more. One thing I'd like to slightly quibble on - I don't like the term 'out of character'. I don't think you mean it that way; Nior is capable of showing his emotions in certain cases and/or under great stress. This showed when his doubts and despair overwhelmed him in  his last battle against the Senshi and in a few other cases.

[Anastasia]

Nior Stuff

Nior was a good change from Kensuke and Arieta, and certainly went a long way to humanising the Jade Legion, but he wasn't perfect - more than once did he flee while leaving a lower ranking youma to fight and die by herself. Usagi doesn't bring that up for the same reason she doesn't like to talk about frequently being the one to kill said youma, but it is noted.

He did, yes. He isn't perfect, and further, he had his orders. The fact that he did sometimes and didn't was intentional - he had his doubts, but they were also mixed with loyalty.

That said, Nior had a pretty rough start after we purified him - I don't think anyone was especially happy with how that went, but he did manage to settle into a comfortable niche eventually - I think Janna played a big part in that, as someone we could more readily relate to, and we could then view Nior through the lens of her perceptions - her odd complaints about living with him made him more rounded than the eminently respectable but somewhat flat former general he was before.

In retrospect I wish Ami hadn't taken Nior's line how she did. He didn't meant to threaten Ami's family like that, he was more just like '...oh.' He hit gold by random chance, more power to him. Sort of. Anyway, that aside, he spent some time off camera being slightly adapted and mentally worked out. This bore fruit both in demeanor and with how other people saw him. Janna did indeed help, as did his interactions with Makoto. He's still someone one note, but he's a deeper and layered note. I'm quite happy with how he's turned out in that regard.

Also, it's pretty scary how effective he is in combat despite being utterly bereft of magic. He managed to slam once of the Beast Lord's avatars around pretty well, and damn near splattered Balder one time (a 2-6 does help, just a pity our Prince dodged).

(As an aside, why is Usagi bringing up all the good thoughts about Nior? I expected Makoto to more. Go fig.)

This gets into another point. Nior didn't use his powers much beyond teleportation. In a way I believe a small part of him always knew the truth, and in his heart he couldn't accept most of it. Being a commander level youma, he was able to resist between that and his strong will. It's scary to imagine Nior if he'd fully tapped into his potential, even if it's only mediocre.

This was a nice side point to compensate his lack of magic post purification. He's still capable of layin' it down and out.

[Bean Bandit]

(As an aside, why is Usagi bringing up all the good thoughts about Nior? I expected Makoto to more. Go fig.)

Usagi has better perspective on the battle scenes-I tended to focus on my own role, she had to concentrate on the battle as a whole. >_>

And when I said out of character, I meant his normal character. If someone is customarily impassive, and they turn emotional, it's out of character. Not completely, but to a certain extent.

As a side thought, If Nior wasn't so old, Makoto would have practically thrown herself at him. >_> Like I said in the Taka replies...Someone like Uncle Taka is who she's looking for in a boyfriend, and Nior definitely fits the bill. I'm not 100% certain it would work out perfectly, but the feelings would be there initially...Actually, it's funny, but I recall that 'Reini' omake where a 'Balder-Hotaru-Makoto' arrangement is hinted at...Swap out Balder for a young Noir, and Makoto would be a very happy camper. Anything she could possibly want romantically is there.