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Rules cleanup/clarification/streamlining.

Started by Anastasia, September 03, 2006, 02:11:24 AM

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Anastasia

Usa - 1 point in evil sensing. Another point for improved TP. The Crystal is...meh. I won't count it directly for the moment but I'll bear it in mind for overall weight. It's probably an item of power of at -least- level 6, but using it is so limited that this restrains it.
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I won't count magic visions since it's universal. Plus Hotaru's void stuff isn't really categorized effectively yet. What does that make the totals look like, bunny?
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Now that the post has been edited? Mako's slightly ahead in non senshi traits and Usagi's slightly ahead in Sailor traits. Counting in the Silver Crystal I think that balances well between them.

Hotaru's a bit behind but some of her stuff still needs to be finished/padded out/Junned. Could you do Kot-chan and Ami-chan really quick, too?
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Oh, and I forgot. Tack on another two points to Hotaru for good evil sensing in general, even if it's somewhat overlapped now.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Asrana

QuoteEDIT: Oh, and also my thumbs up on Hotaru's suggestion for Danger Sense. +1 DCV on surprise rounds? That makes a heck of a lot more sense than a flat +1 DCV anytime, snugly fits in with the flavor, and is balanced.

I made this suggestion tied together with CM as a balancing act, I don't really see them as separate.
lt;Kotono>  (Currently looks like a 16-year-old girl):I walk up to the leader and say, "Are you so sure you want our money?" and use my alter self ability to grow a massive bulge in my pants.

Anastasia

Mako's issue is resolved.

I forgot I made a stupid ruling with 'half a point in CM'. To be fair, so did Mako, so we're just converting it into FC Offense. My apologies to everyone for this over me being a 'tard.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Anastasia

Quote from: "Asrana"
QuoteEDIT: Oh, and also my thumbs up on Hotaru's suggestion for Danger Sense. +1 DCV on surprise rounds? That makes a heck of a lot more sense than a flat +1 DCV anytime, snugly fits in with the flavor, and is balanced.

I made this suggestion tied together with CM as a balancing act, I don't really see them as separate.

I'll figure out Danger Sense tonight now that the paradigm has slightly altered.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Ebiris

Makoto

Base attributes
48
(counting damage reduction as a 2 point ability. Teleportation and Flight counted as 2 points each)

Senshi attributes
55
(counting leaping as a 1 point ability and energy deflection as 2 point ability. 1 point for all senshi attacks except highest. Elemental affinity is considered 2 points)

Defects
3 Bonus Points

Usagi

Base attributes
44
(Evil Sense as 1 point, Teleportation as 3)

Senshi attributes
56
(counting mass rejuve as 2 point ability and negative energy deflection as 2 point ability. 1 point for boosted agility and 2 points for boosted CV. Not counting Silver Crystal.)

Defects
2 Bonus Points

Hotaru

Base attributes
48
(counting healing as 1 point ability. Superior reality manipulation counts as 2 points.)

Senshi attributes
46
(counting Crisis Thrust as level 4 attack. 1 point for boosted body. Silence Wall counted 1 point per level)

Defects
5 Bonus points

Ami

Base attributes
38
(counting Coordinator and Mind over Soul as 1 point each, Teleport as 1 point)

Senshi attributes
47
(counting elemental alignment as 2 points and heightened senses as 1 point)

Defects
3 Bonus Points
(Could give her 4 if her weakness to fire counts)

Kotono

Base attributes
35

Senshi attributes
41

Defects
3 Bonus Points

Ebiris

Since this came up in channel, I'll ask it here: How does Focused Combat affect initiative, now?

Anastasia

That's a good point. You can declare that you're using FC that round, but if you change your mind come action you'll drop down in the initiative order and have to wait. Seems simplest.
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Laggy

Another question. FC's ACV bonuses (for melee and ranged) obviously apply only when you're doing an attack of that nature. But what about the DCV bonus? Do you get it if you've made a melee attack with FC (Offense) that round (so basically +1 CV if you're attacking melee), or if you are the target of a melee attack (from an enemy)? To me, the latter makes more sense, but this is a bit unclear.

Ebiris

Quote from: "Laggy"Another question. FC's ACV bonuses (for melee and ranged) obviously apply only when you're doing an attack of that nature. But what about the DCV bonus? Do you get it if you've made a melee attack with FC (Offense) that round (so basically +1 CV if you're attacking melee), or if you are the target of a melee attack (from an enemy)? To me, the latter makes more sense, but this is a bit unclear.

The way I wrote it in my suggestion was that anyone with FC (Ranged) gets an ACV boost for attacking at range, and a DCV boost for defending, at range - irrelevant of what kind of attack they're doing themselves.

This makes far more sense than having someone get attacked first thing in the round, failing their dodge by one, and then suddenly announcing "Wait, I'm going to be using a ranged attack on my turn, so that means its a dodge!"

On the other hand, FC (Offense) will never increase your DCV, since it's a blanket ACV boost and nothing else.

Bean Bandit

QuoteThe way I wrote it in my suggestion was that anyone with FC (Ranged) gets an ACV boost for attacking at range, and a DCV boost for defending, at range - irrelevant of what kind of attack they're doing themselves.

Mild objection, here. Adding a DCV to a ranged FC seems like unnecessary twinking. Ranged attacks already have inherent weakness in that all the DCV mods already apply. Agility and Acrobatics and pretty much any possible DCV advantage I can think of apply to ranged attacks, because you can see them incoming, and have time to try and dodge. (Apologies if I've missed the original suggestion somewhere, this is the first I've seen of this definition.)

To my view, FC (Ranged) should function like FC (Offense), only a more specialized variety. Essentially, it'd be declaring yourself a sharpshooter.

Melee is the only FC I think that should really apply to both ACV and DCV because it's a function of offense and Defense.
---
I love the games I've played here.

Bean Bandit

As a follow up, my esteemed collegue has pointed out that removing DCV from FC (Ranged) Neuters it's effectiveness as a seperate category, and the point is well made.  

Maybe, instead of a DCV mod that's ridiculously stackable, a level of Damage reduction versus ranged attacks? It'd definitely go well with our cannons.
---
I love the games I've played here.

Ebiris

Quote from: "Bean Bandit"As a follow up, my esteemed collegue has pointed out that removing DCV from FC (Ranged) Neuters it's effectiveness as a seperate category, and the point is well made.  

Maybe, instead of a DCV mod that's ridiculously stackable, a level of Damage reduction versus ranged attacks? It'd definitely go well with our cannons.

I think damage reduction is an unnecessary complication, and doesn't really fit balance-wise or thematically.

I get what you say about ranged attacks generally being superior, but there's no rule that says they have to be. A character could easily get a special melee attack that equals anyone else's special ranged attacks - Asher seems to be going down the route of having all his big guns be melee attacks, for example. Not to mention the majority of the villians this arc seem to be melee heavy hitters.

In terms of game balance, the 4 Focused Combat options provided fit perfectly. Offense/Defence provide a blanket boost to ACV or DCV under all circumstances, and taking both is the same as taking Combat Mastery (costs 2 points as well). Ranged/Melee provide specialised bonuses to ACV and DCV under certain situations, but if you take both it covers all situations - again balancing with a level of Combat Mastery.

Thematically, I see it in the following terms:

Focused Combat (Offense) - The character has a 'killer instinct' and an inherent knack for attacking at the expense of anything else. They have just an extra edge at inflicting damage beyond what their basic combat abilities dictate.

Focused Combat (Defence) - The character has a near sixth sense for predicting when they're about to hit and are able to react instantly to avoid harm. They just have an extra edge at avoiding harm beyond what their basic combat abilities dictate.

Focused Combat (Ranged) - The character is skilled at leading their target to hit them at a distance, and also has a knack for keeping their head down to avoid reprisals at range. But these specialised maneuvers are of no use when an enemy gets right in their face to attack.

Focused Combat (Melee) - The character is skilled at reading the movements of their foe in order to place their own blows more effectively, and also to react and defend against physical reprisals. But these specialised maneuvers are of no use against an attack coming from a distance.

As an aside, from what I've seen, Agility tends to be used just as much in melee combat as with ranged attacks - it's dependant on having room to move around, whether you're trading blows or circling around and blasting each other.

Anastasia

Quote
As an aside, from what I've seen, Agility tends to be used just as much in melee combat as with ranged attacks - it's dependant on having room to move around, whether you're trading blows or circling around and blasting each other.

It is. Melee vs ranged combat isn't an issue with agility, as most fights in this system are very focused on rapid movement and evasion. I've always been inclined to give the benefit of the doubt here.

QuoteMaybe, instead of a DCV mod that's ridiculously stackable, a level of Damage reduction versus ranged attacks? It'd definitely go well with our cannons.

Heh, that's tempting and quite interestingly stackable. But I think I agree with Usagi on this - it's overly complicating, and it feels more like a stacking seperate trait(1 point for damage reduction in a certain situation) than a logical condition of focused combat.

Focused Combat (Ranged) - The character is skilled at leading their target to hit them at a distance, and also has a knack for keeping their head down to avoid reprisals at range. But these specialised maneuvers are of no use when an enemy gets right in their face to attack.

On reading it, this makes sense. Usagi and Kotono both focus purely on magical attacks, and it's logical that they're gonna be in a bind if they're forced into hand to hand.

---

This also ties into a personal GMing preference - I don't mind good DCVs on most girls as long as it hurts when it hits. Nior, Makoto and Takeshi are very notable exceptions to this, having defense above and beyond any reasonable call of duty. I'm not so hasty to hand out Damage Reduction to others lightly. Takeshi is damn near made of stone, MAkoto got the piss beaten out of her for weeks on end, and Nior is Nior.[/i]
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?