Rules cleanup/clarification/streamlining.

[Anastasia]

PS - Kotono officially went with Focused Combat: Ranged.

I may retweak a few baddied in this arc to use these new focused combats.

[Anastasia]

Any last questions here before I close this?

[Anastasia]

1. EC+melee attacks. There was discussion about if the entire attack fails if you blow your soul check. The argument was that it shouldn't since the soul is just for the extra elemental punch. Thoughts?

2. On the rebalancing front, I think I'm going to increase Starlight Breaker's EP consumption to 50. It's a very strong attack, doubly so with it's charging damage and a +4 to DCV. Ten more EP feels more in line with it's relative power level. Thoughts?

[Ebiris]

Starlight Breaker is a nerfed level 4 attack, so going by the book, 40 EP could be said to be too much (should be 90 + ACV damage and a +4 DCV penalty for that much).

That said, we do have a fairly unique scaling in game, so I'm not sure if comparisons to the book are all that valid. It's to be expected that I defend my own powers, mind you.

Still, I don't see that charging is that big an issue. Admittedly it is a considerable saving of EP depending on how long I charge it for, but the risk of it all being for nothing if I'm hit while charging or miss, compared with the more consistent damage of just blasting for 70 + ACV every round seems fair to me.

Comparing it with other senshi, Makoto generally does 70+ damage with Thunderclap Slash for 30 EP, although it lacks a DCV penalty but does have an ACV bonus. Hotaru can either do just under 70 with Ruin Eruption for 45 EP - only has a +1 DCV penalty but also reduces the target's DCV by 2 for the rest of the battle, or use Crisis Thrust for all sorts of brokeness if she's sufficiently hurt.

Here ends my impassioned defence of my coolest attack.

[Anastasia]

Starlight Breaker is a nerfed level 4 attack, so going by the book, 40 EP could be said to be too much (should be 90 + ACV damage and a +4 DCV penalty for that much).

That said, we do have a fairly unique scaling in game, so I'm not sure if comparisons to the book are all that valid. It's to be expected that I defend my own powers, mind you.

Yeah, book stuff with a small grain of salt due to our own balancing. That said, I agree and I'm glad you stick up for yourself. Nothin' wrong with that.

Still, I don't see that charging is that big an issue. Admittedly it is a considerable saving of EP depending on how long I charge it for, but the risk of it all being for nothing if I'm hit while charging or miss, compared with the more consistent damage of just blasting for 70 + ACV every round seems fair to me.

Comparing it with other senshi, Makoto generally does 70+ damage with Thunderclap Slash for 30 EP, although it lacks a DCV penalty but does have an ACV bonus. Hotaru can either do just under 70 with Ruin Eruption for 45 EP - only has a +1 DCV penalty but also reduces the target's DCV by 2 for the rest of the battle, or use Crisis Thrust for all sorts of brokeness if she's sufficiently hurt.

Here ends my impassioned defence of my coolest attack.

I tend to see it as not quite balanced. For example, look at combined attacks. Double EP and double risk for double damage. This isn't quite so much - 1x, 2x, 3x or 4x damage in exchange for charging up and a nice DCV mod. It's good and it follows your theme of heavy damage, but I think it's a little too good as it stands. Moreso since you have Rejuv 5 and can recover -more than you spend on it- with one rejuvenation.  That doesn't really feel balanced to me.

[Bean Bandit]

1) For the soul/melee attacks, I'm in favor of it working much like Thunder Smasher and Thunderclap Slash. Fuck up the ACV (Or, initial roll) and you've got nothing, but if you both the soul, (Or second roll) then you get a watered down, purely physical attack.

Basically, if you're combining melee and Soul, Melee is the essential part of the attack, and the rolls could and should reflect this. You must not fail the ACV.

But since soul is only to boost the attack, I view it like a building and it's foundation. A hurricane or random chance might destroy the building itself, but I've never heard of such a thing happening to a properly laid foundation. Thus, what the foundation was supporting is gone, but it's still there.

So a new trick like my thunder lance that I tried impaling Hatred on, I botched the EC roll, so I couldn't cook his insides...but I should have been able to stab him, or at least knock him away.

2) As for Starlight Breaker...Hm. I'm not a fan of nerfing attacks, but this has seemed excessively chunky to me for awhile, and this seems like a good solution.

Comparing it with other senshi, Makoto generally does 70+ damage with Thunderclap Slash for 30 EP, although it lacks a DCV penalty but does have an ACV bonus. Hotaru can either do just under 70 with Ruin Eruption for 45 EP - only has a +1 DCV penalty but also reduces the target's DCV by 2 for the rest of the battle, or use Crisis Thrust for all sorts of brokeness if she's sufficiently hurt.

This is true...but to put this another way, in the fight with Hatred, Usagi did 150+damage for only two or three rounds of charging. To come even close to that level of damage, (Assuming I don't crit) I need to pour 60 EP into it, and I need to be right in close. Usagi can let loose from a long way away, and this is a reasonably cheap attack, EP wise. I'm in favor of a circumstantial discount of some sort to keep the price from being psychotic(Waive the 'double cost' for combining attacks, maybe?) but Considering this one could level a building given the right setup, the price increase seems fair.

[Asrana]

Crisis Thrust only becomes honestly broken with the glaive. And that's...100 EP and 5 hp cost. Even the regular crisis thrust is 80 ep. I PAY for that one.

As for the 'risk' of Starlight Breaker? >_>; There's never even been an attempt to disrupt it since it can be thrown from stand off ranges (Something that's been highly discouraged for most attacks in the past). It's a huge saving of EP compared to the rest of us and the odds are seriously in your favor between ACV and DCV mods. Furthermore, yeah, the rejuve makes this even worse. Usagi can Rejuve-Starlight-Rejuve-Starlight, and eventually get a free Starlight out of it. At best it's taking me 68 EP to do 138 damage, where Usagi will do 158 on 40, with relatively similar chances--both have to be focused on one opponent, etc, etc.

[Ebiris]

I was going to point out that at 50 EP, I'd never be able to use it twice in a row - I'd *have* to rejuve to use it again, since I only have 100 EP. Which ties in with what Makoto said, since that'd make it utterly impossible to use in a combined attack.

And yes, I haven't been hit while charging it so far, but I've only used charged versions like twice - once against Jadeite while he was busy fighting our aerial squadron and once against Hatred while he was fighting several others a decent distance away. Obviously I'm not stupid enough to charge it when there's an obvious risk of getting hit while doing so.

Also, using the fact that I have high rejuve as an excuse to penalise me seems really unfair. I paid for that ability after all.

Honestly, if Starlight Breaker is seen as such a problem, I'd rather have it just taken out via actual events in game (it is dependant on the Lunar Staff, although destroying that would have a whole host of other issues) and replaced by something less objectionable than just having it mysteriously become more difficult to use. I'd be sad to see it go, since its awesome in a dramatic sense, and has great utility outside of an actual battle (like destroying Jadeite's portal), but I'd rather have a usable top tier attack than something I simply can't use outside of set piece events.

[Bean Bandit]

Honestly, if Starlight Breaker is seen as such a problem, I'd rather have it just taken out via actual events in game (it is dependant on the Lunar Staff, although destroying that would have a whole host of other issues) and replaced by something less objectionable than just having it mysteriously become more difficult to use. I'd be sad to see it go, since its awesome in a dramatic sense, and has great utility outside of an actual battle (like destroying Jadeite's portal), but I'd rather have a usable top tier attack than something I simply can't use outside of set piece events.

Isn't that a little melodramatic? =/ It's not a dramatic price increase, and you do have tremdous Rejuv. All this was about was evening out the playing field a little, I thought. I know I wasn't trying to pick on you for having it...

[Ebiris]

Not really. For example, when we were fighting Jadeite and had him down from the air, I had to spam off a couple of uncharged Breakers to hit him. I'd have to do much the same if I got caught in a fight with Hatred or some other big baddie of this arc - I was only able to charge up last time because I was basically coming out of nowhere while you guys were fighting him.

My other attacks don't do enough damage to seriously bother the villians of this arc, and if I had to rejuve after every single shot from Starlight Breaker, it'd be a tremendous pain.

Plus, y'know, spamming rejuve like that would lead to it getting nerfed in short order.

[Asrana]

...but I'd rather have a usable top tier attack than something I simply can't use outside of set piece events.

Welcome to my feelings about the Glaive Crisis Thrust. >_>

And I think paying for it is what' the point is--Starlight Breaker is too much in practice for what it cost to get. What it costs to use is a part of that balance.

It ends up creating a balance conundrum.

As for the stand off capability and the logic to that--yes, it's logical, but you havent' been taking ACV penalties like it's been hinted since early arc 1 that the rest of us would take if we tried engaging at that sort of range. If I can fly 100 feet into the air and bombard something on the ground without ACV penalties, this might be less of an issue, because then there's the possibility for all of us to get into a position to not be harmed while we pour on the fire as well.

[Anastasia]

I was going to point out that at 50 EP, I'd never be able to use it twice in a row - I'd *have* to rejuve to use it again, since I only have 100 EP. Which ties in with what Makoto said, since that'd make it utterly impossible to use in a combined attack.

Okay, point about combined attacks there. Mmmm.

And yes, I haven't been hit while charging it so far, but I've only used charged versions like twice - once against Jadeite while he was busy fighting our aerial squadron and once against Hatred while he was fighting several others a decent distance away. Obviously I'm not stupid enough to charge it when there's an obvious risk of getting hit while doing so.

Point; won't dispute it too much.

Also, using the fact that I have high rejuve as an excuse to penalise me seems really unfair. I paid for that ability after all.

I'm not penalising you for it. You're the sum of the parts, and balance is working your powers in light of that. It's why Hotaru's Crisis Thrusts are EP sinks of a grand nature - they wouldn't be balanced if they cost a more reasonable EP, would they? Or a normal human who for whatever reason onlya ttacks with his fists and feet, having no massive damage - but has a natural ACV of 11 for whatever reason. It's good, but it's not unbalanced per se compared to the norm here. A natural 11 ACV on most of you girls would pust that into unbalancedness in combination with your other abilities.

Honestly, if Starlight Breaker is seen as such a problem, I'd rather have it just taken out via actual events in game (it is dependant on the Lunar Staff, although destroying that would have a whole host of other issues) and replaced by something less objectionable than just having it mysteriously become more difficult to use. I'd be sad to see it go, since its awesome in a dramatic sense, and has great utility outside of an actual battle (like destroying Jadeite's portal), but I'd rather have a usable top tier attack than something I simply can't use outside of set piece events.

I don't think it's a problem as much as I want to tweak it a bit. It's really good, but I worry it eclipsed everyone else rather badly and skirts being unbalanced.

Okay.

Since you feel strongly about it, I'll give you a choice: I can rebalance Starlight Breaker a bit, scrap it and give you something new, or scrap it and work with Moon Crystal Tiara since I wanted to make that worthwhile anyhow. I'd prefer not to scrap it. I really do like the move, itj ust feels a hair too strong as is. If you have a better suggestion I'm all ears too, people.

[Bean Bandit]

What about a branchoff attack? Give her a slightly reduced power version of the Starlight Breaker that costs less, Like Hotaru's non-glaive Crisis thrust?

[Ebiris]

Moon Crystal Tiara is a joke. Permanently drop 2 EP for 129 damage? Considering the abuse Hatred took last night, the idea is patently absurd. It'd barely make our current villians blink.

I suppose its probably best to scrap it and come up with something new - I had a somewhat decent idea back on Gaia for another level 4 attack that I could use more consistently than Starlight Breaker, but never had points to spend on it.

If it's allowed, I'd be more than happy to have Starlight Breaker raised to 50 EP while gaining another attack between it and Twilight Flash. Thematically I'd prefer something that didn't come across as 'Starlight Breaker-lite', but I have an idea for something, as I said above.

[Anastasia]

That'll work. I'll bear that in mind next powerup time and tweak it then. For now Starlight Breaker will remain the same in that case pending said update time.

Okay, now that this is taken care of, any comments on the melee+soul attacks, people?