CFI: Charr Coal::Vote Ruling

[quintopia]

I am responding to a Call For Inquiry/Inquisition/Investigation by Charr Coal.  First, though, it seems I shall have to justify my right to be judge.

Duly note the following excerpts from currently existing rules:

Rule 202:
(5) Once all players have voted, or the 24 hour voting period is ended, the votes are calculated by the judge and the results of the vote are put into force (if applicable)

(6) Once phase five is complete, the score is tabulated and updated by the judge, and the turn is ended.

Rule 212:
If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question.

Thus, you can see that by rule 202, Rezantis, Count of Naysaying's, turn is not yet over, as I, by rule 212, being the judge for his turn, have neither tabulated the votes nor  updated the scores.

It is not my fault that prior judges have not exercised this ability.  I see there is a moderator for this forum named "Nomic Judge," and I believe access to this account was to be handed down judge to judge, turn by turn.  I cannot claim responsibility for that either, but the rules do clearly state that I am judge until Rezantis, Count of Naysaying's turn is over, and Char Coal, by invoking judgement on his turn, has prevented the turn from ending, as this matter directly concerns tabulating votes and updating scores, and so the turn cannot end until it is decided.  You may here argue your respective cases before me, and I will make my judgement later.

[Rezantis]

Unfortunately, Char Coal quite demonstrably has -not- invoked judgement during my turn, as is easily verifiable by dates; it was invoked during his own turn.  Therefore, I am currently the Judge, and I fail to see the purpose of this thread.

See, under Rule 202, the acts being conditional upon each other is not specified.  Were you, Leus Butt Man Quintopia, the judge at the time (which you were not, no judgement having been called), upon entering phase six the turn is quite clearly ended.  The fact that there was no tabulation and update of the score at the same time is immaterial; that only needs to occur sometime after the completion of phase five.

Therefore my turn was ended and Char Coal's turn had begun upon his call for a judge, and under the rules, I am (as the player preceding him in the order), the Judge - although I have nothing to make judgement on, as casting judgement on what he requests would be an illegal act for me.

[Rye Coal]

Rizantis Count of Cautious Naysaying, 202 explicity states the phases of a player's turn- and all of yours have not been completed, and that's the bottom line. While were still on your turn, I'll raise the issue of my own vote's legitimacy for judgement- since you convienently deleted your request for judgement on that topic.

[Rezantis]

Unfortunately, Char Coal, the fact that Quintopia, Leus Butt Man was not in fact the judge at the time does not change the fact that phase six clearly states that my turn has ended.  The vote ended; my proposal was put into force; my turn has ended (and if we had had a judge at the time, it would be at this point that he would have calculated the votes and placed).  

(6) Once phase five is complete, the score is tabulated and updated by the judge, and the turn is ended.

This is quite clear.  Once phase five is complete, which it was as of 11:37AM yesterday morning, GMT+10, the turn is ended.  There is no indication in this description that the actions are dependent upon each other.  

There is also no indication that all actions in this phase must be completed before the turn is ended.

Therefore my turn -has- ended as of 11:37am yesterday morning, and your turn began.  Your request for judgement took place after this time, at a point when your turn was the only active turn.  Therefore your request must be taken as pertaining to your turn, and under rule 212 I am now the Judge.  And again, there is no rule that states that I cannot revoke my request for judgement; therefore it is permissible that I do so.

Your request for judgement has been noted, (and we're well aware of it, you don't need to request it again), and again - it would be illegal for me, the judge, to pass judgement on the matter you're requesting.

[Rezantis]

Leus Butt Man Quintopia, I strongly recommend that you and I speak to each other over AIM at some point this afternoon, PST.

[quintopia]

I would love to talk to you, Rezantis, Count of Naysaying.  My reasons for rejecting this proposal and my offer to work together on the next such will interest you.

Furthermore, I still hold that your turn has not ended.  The rules state clearly:

(5) Once all players have voted, or the 24 hour voting period is ended, the votes are calculated by the judge and the results of the vote are put into force (if applicable)

The judge referred to is clearly the judge for your turn, me, and as I have not calculated the votes, the results of the vote cannot be enacted, and this phase cannot have ended.

As I have already stated, I cannot successfully tabulate the votes until this matter is resolved.

I will be available online until 3pm EST (45 minutes from now).  If I have not heard from you by then, I will resort to other means.

[Rezantis]

Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get on AIM at the time, since I was asleep.   I'll be avilable most the rest of the day. I'm still willing to talk if you are, otherwise I guess alternate means for now. :)

--

Your argument does not hold true and your right to be the Judge is still unproven.  It is unfortunate that we had no judge at the time of phase 5; you have given no evidence that you were the judge at this time and had any right to perform the actions that you are saying that you should.

Under rule 212 as it was at the time:

--
If players disagree about the legality of a move or the interpretation or application of a rule, then the player preceding the one moving is to be the Judge and decide the question. Disagreement for the purposes of this rule may be created by the insistence of any player. This process is called invoking Judgment.
--

This quite clearly states the process for someone to become judge.  Despite your best attempts to confuse the issue, you most certainly were not judge until after the completion of my turn and you therefore had no legal right to perform the acts that you saying you needed to perform.  Simply because my turn was in effect did not make you judge; someone does not become judge until the rules call for them to be made the judge.

[tinuviel]

...and this is precisely why we need a more permanent Judge.  So that we don't have to sit here and argue over technicalities to decide who is actually the Judge.

[Rezantis]

I don't like the idea of a permanent judge, but yeah, you're getting the point I'm trying to make.  The system really needs fixing.

[CasualSax]

So.. what happens now?

[tinuviel]

I think the first step would be to establish who is actually the Judge.  :P

[CasualSax]

Drinking contest via webcam anyone?

[Rezantis]

I just choked on my drink, does that count?

[tinuviel]

I just choked on my drink, does that count?

You win!  :P