[NGE] The Coming of the First Ones

[JonBob]

Hmmm....

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With the finest tailors in the capital hurrying the craft a suit for Shinji
...hurrying to craft...

Their reasons for acting that way were different, certainly---Shinji had been independent out of necessity at times, he just hadn't known any other way to connect with people.  Rei, too, was a solitary person by nature, but how much of that could be blamed on Shinji's father and his perverse reasons for wanting Rei to exist at all. 
These two sentences just don't flow well.

As for the changes (major!), I'm unsure if I like them. I can kinda see why you made them, possibly to keep the focus on Shinji and have a more overarching view of things, but then it sacrifices the investment in Nozomi. Like, I found myself thinking "why do we care about what's going on her head?" Anyhow, I think the best way to go about this chapter might be a little of both versions. Shinji parts for more of him and overarching events and Nozomi for, well, her.

As to the plot changes, I wasn't that fond of Asuka and Shinji informing Nozomi for the first time. It just felt... dunno, forced? The simultaneous attack on the pilot candidates was a good change, but I'm not sure if it needs Shinji there (can be alleviated by the dual viewpoints). I like the higher(?) amount of Nozomi & Shinji interaction.

[Muphrid]

Spoiler: ShowHide

As for the changes (major!), I'm unsure if I like them. I can kinda see why you made them, possibly to keep the focus on Shinji and have a more overarching view of things, but then it sacrifices the investment in Nozomi. Like, I found myself thinking "why do we care about what's going on her head?" Anyhow, I think the best way to go about this chapter might be a little of both versions. Shinji parts for more of him and overarching events and Nozomi for, well, her.

Yeah, splitting the difference is on the table, but I think I'd rather avoid it and confront why we might not care what's going on in Nozomi's head.  Ideally (and perhaps I did not emphasize this enough), Shinji should be troubled by what he and Misato are having to put these children through, even though it's for a good cause.  What problems Nozomi faces should serve to reinforce the point that working with these children brings back bad memories and experiences for Shinji, ones that he's now helping force upon these children.  He could very well bear witness to a breakdown in one of them similar to what he experienced himself, and if so, he will have had a hand in it.  Overall, the missing aspect of Shinji's feelings on this process are why I wanted to go back to Shinji's perspective in the first place.  That's what I hope to get across, and I understand that that task may not be entirely done yet.

The second question that goes with that observation, though, is whether achieving that goal of mine actually makes us as readers care about Nozomi.  I think so, but I admit I'm not sure that does enough.  I would appreciate any further opinions on that matter.

As to the plot changes, I wasn't that fond of Asuka and Shinji informing Nozomi for the first time. It just felt... dunno, forced? The simultaneous attack on the pilot candidates was a good change, but I'm not sure if it needs Shinji there (can be alleviated by the dual viewpoints). I like the higher(?) amount of Nozomi & Shinji interaction.

I'm open to putting the initial interview scene back in the mountain base, which is more neutral territory and might help streamline that scene again, too, if that would help.

Admittedly, Shinji is only there at the attack scene because he holds the viewpoint ball.  I briefly toyed with him realizing that the cop who passed him in the lobby was going to kill Nozomi, but I'm not sure that would really do anything significant.  The best I can think of is if maybe Misato and her men aren't nearly so on top of things and Shinji has to hear about another candidate being attacked (say, over the radio), and he's more or less alone in trying to help save Nozomi.  It gives him more of a central role, but at some point one has to wonder where Misato's security is.

Thanks for the feedback, JonBob.  It's definitely given me a few things to think about.

[Muphrid]

Man, this took too long to adjust.  So, only a couple things changed here:

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Shinji meeting Nozomi is adjusted (it now takes place in the mountain base instead of at the Horaki apartment).
The attack on Nozomi is also adjusted to put more emphasis on Shinji playing a role in helping defeat the plot (as opposed to tagging along with SDF who mostly save the day).

This sums up the bulk of the changes, so I do feel like the chapter is closer.  I appreciate all the comments that have been given so far.

[Muphrid]

And now, after working so hard to stick to Shinji's perspective last chapter, we're...going in a different direction this time.  Hopefully it's not too strange.

[JonBob]

"But, if you've been paying attention, you might realize that that answer has nothing to do with the other question—why does Lilith permit Eisheth to exist? To that, I can only say I don't believe Eisheth is all-powerful. ..."

Do you mean to say "... believe Lilith is all-powerful."? The rest seems to refer to Rei

While she wasn't nearly as recognizable as Shinji, her name was one people knew, and her status was having been part of Nerv, Shinji, and Rei gave her influence and credibility.

The last part is a bit awkward, maybe change the last part to "her status as part of Nerv and her interactions with Shinji and Rei gave her influence and credibility."

"If they could leave me a set of eyes, they could've left something much worse," Maya told her. "We need together and make sure we're safe."

"We need to get together and make sure we're safe."

and dragged Camellia to safety by the cloth of her good,

hood

So, perspective change! *coughrevisechapter3cough* It makes sense due to the fact that it's about the cult of Lilith and you kinda need an inside. The biggest skepticism is that during the standoff why they didn't expect 3rd party interference. That's about it for initial impressions.

[Muphrid]

Do you mean to say "... believe Lilith is all-powerful."? The rest seems to refer to Rei

Yeah, that's particularly silly, isn't it.

So, perspective change! *coughrevisechapter3cough* It makes sense due to the fact that it's about the cult of Lilith and you kinda need an inside. The biggest skepticism is that during the standoff why they didn't expect 3rd party interference. That's about it for initial impressions.

3rd party interference?  Like from whom, exactly?

[JonBob]

Err, by 3rd party, i mean someone other than the other archon and SDF. Plenty of paranoia, but not enough perhaps.

[Muphrid]

Right, what I need to get across, then, is that while Misato and Maya think Camellia is working with Eisheth, and Camellia thinks they have a conspiracy against her, it probably should occur to someone that Eisheth is playing the both of them against each other in some way?  Or otherwise, I just need to confront that possibility of Eisheth's involvement in a way that Misato and Maya haven't anticipated?

[JonBob]

Well, you don't *need* to get that across, it's just that if I thought about it, someone else might as well. I'm not sure what your options for that are, though. Maybe have the other Archon say something to keep them from considering that possibility?

Edit: on the other hand, you can just emphasize a bit how stuck they are on the idea that she's guilty. That would also be plausible and have the fewest changes (I think).

[Jason_Miao]

Right, what I need to get across, then, is that while Misato and Maya think Camellia is working with Eisheth, and Camellia thinks they have a conspiracy against her, it probably should occur to someone that Eisheth is playing the both of them against each other in some way?  Or otherwise, I just need to confront that possibility of Eisheth's involvement in a way that Misato and Maya haven't anticipated?

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Are you trying to surprise readers with the result, or are you trying to justify the characters not seeing it?

If the former, your problem is that you've gone in depth about the church, introduced the Archon, then fingered one as a traitor all within a single chapter.  This is a bit fast.

If the latter, I think the setup is mostly okay as is.  Maybe mention in earlier chapters about how Eisheth favors straightforward attacks (charging and surprisingly durable LCL monsters) from various soldiers, Misato, Shinji's thoughts, etc.  Establish that the *characters* are used to countering Eisheth in a straight-up fashion, so it's reasonable for them to not even think about infiltration.

[Muphrid]

Yeah, it is mostly the latter, and that's a reasonable idea for how to justify the thought process.  Thank you both for your thoughts on the subject.  I'm gonna mull over what exact tweak I want to make before finalizing.  Hopefully it doesn't take unduly long to figure that out.

[Muphrid]

Drafts and publication versions of First Ones can now be found at http://muphrid.net/~michael/writing/first/.

In addition, after using most of my time between Thanksgiving and Christmas on another piece, a draft of chapter five is now attached.

[JonBob]

So, it took me a bit to get to this. Hope it's still relevant.

"Carry on, gentlemen," she said. You do your country proud today."
Missing quotation mark.

The white fishing bolt with silver trim
Boat?

Politics was the domain of politics and cowards,
Repeat of politics

"Is it a personally communication?"
Huh?

"Not that. I have some inter from Bluebird."
Intel

some small enough to conceal in a closed first,
fist

Overall, a lot happens here. We have a lot of introspection from Misato, but a lot of that is pushed aside for action. We have the cleanup and hunting down of Keel's followers and the final confrontation. It seems that a lot of this is just the decline of the conflict into man fighting man, not preparing for the invasion. I dunno. The tone and everything seems a bit grim and depressing. Misato's doing all she can, but things keep on spiraling out of control. Perhaps the underlying feeling comes from a lack of Shinji/Nozomi and what's going on there? Or is that something for the future (and more despair!)?

[Muphrid]

Thanks for taking a look at this, JonBob.

Overall, a lot happens here. We have a lot of introspection from Misato, but a lot of that is pushed aside for action. We have the cleanup and hunting down of Keel's followers and the final confrontation. It seems that a lot of this is just the decline of the conflict into man fighting man, not preparing for the invasion. I dunno. The tone and everything seems a bit grim and depressing. Misato's doing all she can, but things keep on spiraling out of control. Perhaps the underlying feeling comes from a lack of Shinji/Nozomi and what's going on there? Or is that something for the future (and more despair!)?

Yeah, I'd hoped (perhaps too ambitiously) that the introspection and flashback would help setup and Misato's decision to end the Lorenz affair once and for all.  The chapter ended up a lot longer than I'd originally intended, so it occurs to me it may be too drawn out.

A conflict between men absolutely plays into Eisheth's hands, and it's something Shinji and the others will have to deal with in the coming chapter. Hopefully some renewed focus on him will help alleviate some of the dark tenor.  But we're in this "it gets worse before it gets better" phase.  I fully admit the possibility it's getting too bleak, though. If you feel that's the case, I can mull over some ways to even it out. It's a thing I think I have trouble with, so I'm interested in your thoughts on the matter.

Thanks again.

[JonBob]

Well, at the very least the introspection and flashback do help with driving Misato's decision. I didn't mention this the first time, but the chapter was a bit long, so cutting things down might make it snappier. You could use that to your advantage a bit, perhaps, hitting us with things just as fast and hard as they are occurring? Like, a tail spin down into doom rather than a slower slide?

On the too bleak thought, I think you can push for that  if you want. Sometimes you just want a story that will tear your heart out. On that thought, though, if it lingers too long in tearing your heart out, it might backfire. Dunno really, though. Just some thinking aloud.