[Haruhi] Ephemeral

[Brian]

Sarsaparilla and I have been working together for a bit on this fic; I wasn't sure I could make the concept work, but thanks to her input, we managed to do it after all.

If anyone notes any errors or anything, please let us know.

Edit: revision 2; various small grammar fixes.

[lolipettanko]

Not sure if I'm wrong, but there are a lot of instances wherein "were" is used instead of "was" when referring to a singular subject.

EDIT: I believe I am wrong. I can't seem to wrap my head around this "were" and "was" when used with singular nouns. Apologies.

[sarsaparilla]

It's the subjunctive mood. In colloquial speech it is often replaced by indicative, and because it lacks a unique verb form even some native speakers may not recognize it as a separate grammatical element.

The issue may be particularly conspicuous in this story since both the main characters use language in a way that is closer to formal than colloquial.

[Phlogiston Man]

I only had two issues with the story. One is my own personal dislike of the phrase "everything happens for a reason." The other is when Kyon asks Sasaki to text him. From my understanding, email is used more in Japan then text messaging. I don't know much about the subject though, so there's a good chance I'm wrong about it.

[Brian]

Actually, in Japan texting and e-mail are effectively synonymous.  I suppose there's no real harm in changing it, though.

[Muphrid]

As I've been doing of late, specific comments on passages first, before overall impressions.

Plot and structure

Spoiler: ShowHide

Scene 1: We start with Sasaki on the train.  As she switches trains, she runs into Kyon, establishing that they will likely get back in touch again.  We know a little about Sasaki's work and that she was previously married, but that's about all.  The scene does a good job of establishing the situation and giving us something to look forward to, but I don't get a clear feeling of where it would go after Kyon and Sasaki meet again.  Not to say that such is necessary, only that as a reader, the future is ill-defined beyond that, at that stage.

Scene 2: This establishes what Kyon has been up to:  he's a journalist (at least of sorts), and he writes on paranormal events with at least some frequency.  So now with both of these two characters established, we can move on to seeing the interact more.  This is a logical progression.

Scene 3: Kyon and Sasaki have lunch, and we get to the meat of the story as it is extant: Haruhi's fate.  It has shaped Kyon's life to this point.  I admit, the first couple scenes strike me as a bit meandering without purpose--necessary exposition to establish the setting, but this is the moment I really felt a hook in me.  Haruhi's fate is quite a surprise, and I think this is a strong point of the piece.  It fits what what Kyon has been doing.

Still, I think you guys may have written yourselves into a corner with dialogue interspersed with a meal.  While there's a little wiggle room during Kyon's recollection of his investigation at the shrine, there's not a lot of room to be loose with time.  It's not plot-critical, but it did hit me as, "Hmm, is it really time for dessert already?"

There are also serious implications for having Nagato, Koizumi, Asahina, etc. all disappear out of the blue.  It troubles me, at least, to think that they could all just go poof, when at least there's a chance Haruhi is still out there, somewhere.

Now Kyon and Sasaki are collaborators, of sorts, and it sets up possibilities for their future of working together, investigating the paranormal, as perhaps the only two human beings who know for sure it exists.  So I think the ultimate takeaway from this scene is very good: they will be seeing each other again, to figure out some kind of plan of action for testing Kyon's theory or perhaps something else in the same vein.

Scene 4:  I think this is a somewhat unusual choice, to have Kyon surprise Sasaki (unintentionally) by choosing to stay in, yet we're well aware that he's going to be surprising her, even though neither he nor Sasaki are.  This gives the scene a feel I didn't quite expect.  A touch of dramatic irony, I suppose.

To be honest, the balance here between character insight and the plotline of Kyon's theory and his search for Haruhi seems a bit off.  There has been no progress between when the conversation ended in the lunch scene and now; it's more like these two scenes (which are, admittedly, arbitrary in their division) are one big unit, just with an artificial boundary separating the two, with Kyon's explanation merely spaced out by more character interaction.  Cool character interaction, but only interaction nonetheless.  It feels like we've gone ahead, but without making a lot of progress.

Scene 5: Kyon and Sasaki go to watch the sunrise and have a discussion about closed spaces, which Sasaki has recurring dreams about.  The idea that espers actually created closed spaces is put forward, and Kyon rather instantly believes it.  I give this some leeway because it does fit Occam's Razor in some way.

Scene 6: Sasaki visits Kyon now, and they talk about her opportunities for employment elsewhere.  I notice keenly how all her work trouble has been off-screen, and in a way, it's good because we get more focus on Sasaki and Kyon, but I'm cognizant that it also makes all those troubles somewhat...unreal, perhaps (I'm not sure what word to use).  I think I would've been tempted to have real workplace scenes, but given how this keeps the focus squarely on what is (likely) more interesting, I think this is a totally valid choice.

They find a picture with Haruhi in the background, and Kyon takes this as an omen from Haruhi to be proactive.  He talks about his name fitting together with Sasaki's, and it sounds like a very odd, very oblique marriage proposal.

Scene 7: I'm very impressed with this stopping point.  Things have changed, and there's no need to rush things, for the future is ahead of them.  Very, very impressed with the choice to stop here rather than belabor the point.

Overall:  The piece is very focused.  Apart from the initial two scenes that establish Kyon and Sasaki, they are always together, and their conversations are the points of interest.  I think this focus makes it a strong piece for its length--a longer piece would have extraneous stuff in it that you two wisely eschew.

I was overall pleased to see that the conversations about Haruhi and Sasaki's true nature remained, ultimately, speculation, and that let me cast the speculation on what Sasaki was and how she came to lose power and such to be merely the attempts of two people to understand something spectactular, no more and no less.

The piece is rather tranquil, and it amazes me how much mileage you can get just out of these two talking (which is what they do, in large part).


Characterization and development

Spoiler: ShowHide

Scene 1: We start with Sasaki on the train, exercising her ability to analyze people and situations in a very logical and analytical sort of sense.  She is almost clinical in methodology, but she is far from unfeeling--she seems to take some amusement in her ability, but it also comes with some level of downside, also.

She was not personally that interested in a managerial position, just averse to the idea of Tanaka gaining it through less than wholesome means. However, there didn't seem to be anything she could do about it since voicing her suspicions without tangible proof of obstruction was out of question. She would be on shaky ground even if she managed to produce irrefutable evidence, as the necessary measures for achieving that might be interpreted as acting in bad faith to incite internal conflict.

Oh well, too bad.

This makes her come off as either indifferent or even slightly disapproving of office politics, though she's clearly quite aware of its existence.  She acts according to her own directives and standards, or at least they are her primary concern.  I think this is a defining moment for the character as we should see her in the piece.

"Regrettably, this failure has been mutual. My apologies."

Kyon scratched the back of his head while apologizing, and this gesture made Sasaki realize that the reply was not just a pleasantry -- the issue really bothered him.

Very formal, is the impression I take from this. Almost not like Kyon, or perhaps like him in a moment of earnestness and serious regret.

Scene 2: In the second scene (Kyon's first), Kyon seems a bit self-conscious of his own standing.  He hesitates to call Sasaki back at the end of the scene, thinking about Sasaki having after-work drinks with coworkers, as if to reflect on how he does not have that luxury or opportunity.  He dresses very casually, as if not to rise above what he perceives as his own place in the world at the moment.  Kyon is portrayed as being of modest social stature (not having his own business cards, for instance).  But he does call, and doesn't agonize over it.  He isn't wallowing in his own situation by any means.  He comes off as somewhat grounded, then, I think.

Scene 3:  Sasaki thinks on the supernatural vs. the rational world.  She seems to have taken the position that she accepts the supernatural world, but largely on a factual level.  She certainly doesn't live or revel in that side of things, and as a result, she's lost touch with Tachibana and nearly so with Kyon.

She had hesitated for a while before choosing the wisteria skirt suit that she was sparing for special occasions. By doing so she was certainly forfeiting her ability to blend inconspicuously in the crowd; instead of being able to discreetly observe other people, she could sense how she was now the target of many an aside glance. While the attention she was drawing was not disapproving by any measure, she would rather have done without.

She seems to prefer observing the world to being an involved part of it, at least in some respects, and I think this meshes with her attitude towward the supernatural vs. the rational world above: the supernatural exists and she accepts that, but she doesn't participate in it.

Kyon freely admits he didn't have much planned this week; he is relatively open about his position and standing.  He's politely humble when Sasaki praises him for embracing work he enjoys.

Sasaki orders ahead of time: she's being a little assertive, in my opinion, especially since she emphasizes that she's interested in having more time with him to catch up, rather than to struggle over what to order.  Sasaki has been keeping closer tabs on him than he her, it sounds like.  There's quite a bit of admiration for what Kyon does and how he does it--making a personal connection, as she says.  Perhaps this reflects on how she feels her job is the antithesis of such a thing: making impersonal observations about people in a collective, statistical sense.

That Sasaki dismisses any romantic overtones as unlikely is not surprising.  That she fears she should feel guilty for it speaks to a subjugation of her own desires; she's not accustomed to indulging herself.  Perhaps she even feels it unwise to do so.

"So, how do you divide the work?"

As soon as she had said this she knew that she had made a mistake; she just didn't know yet how big it was.

"What do you mean?" he asked, raising an eyebrow.

"I know that you do the research and the final writing part...," she said, hoping against all odds that she had simply misread the cues, and simultaneously chiding herself for making such an unwarranted assumption.

Kyon looked quizzically at her for a moment before spotting the unvoiced question.

"You're talking about Haruhi, aren't you? You can remember Haruhi?"

"How could I not remember her?" Sasaki asked, pushed off balance by the unexpected response.

This passage puzzles me.  It seems that Sasaki does not mean to broach the subject that Kyon believes she is broaching, and that Kyon jumps to a conclusion that did not follow.  Sasaki assumes Kyon has an assistant?  Kyon thinks she means a partner, a lover.  Or perhaps she is asking that question after all (which would fit with the "unwarranted assumption").  If she is indeed asking that question, then her interest in him seems much more overt than she even realized or would admit to herself.

I see now, later on, that part of Kyon's strong reaction here is that he didn't expect Sasaki to remember Haruhi at all, so even a hint that she was talking about her he pounced upon.

Anyway, later on in this scene, Sasaki has just reacted to Kyon's story about Haruhi, and she has this feeling she can't describe, and later again when she settles on saying that Kyon's attitude is admirable.  She seems really out of touch with her own feelings, as if the person she's least capable of analyzing is herself.

Kyon then goes on to put forth a theory, and the implication is pretty clear: he's grasping for a way for Haruhi's departure to make sense as being in both their interests, rather than something he'd be doomed never to understand.  It's hard to judge at this point whether this idea is well-founded or merely rationalization.  It's really the first time Kyon seems like anything other than a reasonably well-adjusted guy; here he's asking Sasaki, basically, if this has even a hint of plausibility.  It signals to me that the wounds of Haruhi leaving his side are still there, which is part of why Sasaki seems so bothered that she even helped bring the subject up in the first place.  I was expecting Kyon to be elated that someone else actually remembered at all; instead his reaction is more measured.  To me, it's like he's worried about getting his hopes up, but he definitely has some hope (or need) about him.

Scene 4: Both Kyon and Sasaki admit they would be unprepared for visitors.  They have led somewhat isolated lives, then, in a personal sense.  This is borne out, for Sasaki at least, by her minimalistic decor.  Sasaki seems the type to eschew friendships for the sake of merely having them, but it almost seems like she's stayed static and unconnected with people, not even indulging in a fraction of a reasonable and healthy level of personal connection.  It seems like she's changed too little since high school; on the other hand, she was married at one time, so perhaps this behavior is just a reaction to that time.

Sasaki later goes on to suggest that she simply hasn't brought herself to accept the permanence of her situation.  I admit, I find this explanation a little dissatisfying, or at the least, I'm not inclined to take it wholly at face value. As a rule, I think characters should not have perfect insight into themselves, so I can accept this is the reason she believes she's doing this, but I remain a little skpetical it actually is the case--or that it is the whole and entire explanation.

Sasaki's description of her marriage and divorce is very...neutral, very matter-of-fact.  Almost sounds like she and her husband were friends who happened to get married, rather than people in "love".  Not that Sasaki seems like the kind of person who would engage in romance in a typical fashion, but still, it feels like either she's distancing herself from her emotions deliberately...or she really is just that way.  Later, another theory comes up that Sasaki merely wished to avoid being a housewife, but this to me seems like a bit of a false dichotomy; while Sasaki would've had to consider giving up her job, surely there were other jobs she could've pursued.

Sasaki reflects a bit on her dissatisfaction with her career, which has been telegraphed for some time, given her enthusiasm for Kyon's line of work.  There's an element that, abandoning her career now would be really admitting a mistake (in not staying with her husband).  Again, this makes her come off a bit stubborn (consistent with the first scene, not wanting to observe office politics).  It's a stubbornness that she doesn't show overtly, but it seems to underlie her personality--there are things she'll willingly admit and do, and there are things she absolutely won't, simply because she chooses not to.  Of course, letting regret over her divorce keep her from pursuing happiness is really compounding mistakes--it's a sunk cost fallacy.

Later, Kyon and Sasaki flesh out his theory, but to me, it just seems like a lot of speculation without any evidence--there are dozens of ways Haruhi's statement could be interpreted.  I feel like Kyon should have something more concrete to really be pushing this, or else he should acknowledge that it's just a toy idea that he's come up with to make sense of things, but he's looking for any evidence at all.

Scene 5: Kyon and Sasaki go on a trip a bit earlier than Sasaki expected.

She refrained from admitting that she didn't have anything planned for the afternoon, and in fact she would have been completely happy if the trip had taken a whole day, but saying so would have been inconsiderate since he was already putting so much effort to the surprise.

Sasaki, Sasaki.  For once, it is safe to express what you want vs. what you're too polite to ask for.  You guys have done a good job making her this way.

Kyon seems to be paying close attention to Sasaki during the drive, despite driving at night.  Sasaki notes that Kyon genuinely cares about people, while she only has an intellectual interest in most other human beings.  She seems to find his lack of clinging to platitudes for platitudes' sake refreshing. 

"While this current arrangement is one of strict necessity, as I don't have a car or even a driver's license, I imagine that it wouldn't have been physically impossible for me to carry you at the back of a bicycle instead of the other way round. Could the fact that you never insisted that we should take turns at pedaling be seen as a tacit acknowledgement of a social convention postulating that particular arrangement -- because I was a girl?"

He furrowed his brow. "Uh, wasn't that quite obvious?"

"Thus, it is indeed as I thought, and that makes me glad. But, at the same time it appears to me that you are underestimating the ability of a teenage girl to feel insecure about her personality despite displaying an external image of confidence."

"You really thought that I might take you for a boy?" he asked in bewilderment.

I take this to be referencing Rainy Day, but I feel like it might be a little opaque to someone not as familiar with the piece.

The whole subsequent conversation about whether Sasaki is or is not a girl and what it means to categorize people puzzles me a bit.  To me, the obvious answer is that Sasaki does want to be seen as a girl to him, as someone who could in principle hold his romantic interest (despite her mental insistence that this is not what she wants).  If not for emphasis on the girl aspect, I would accept that she wants to be seen (and is seen) as a human being, or as a person in a looser definition of the word that can include aliens and other beings, rather than as an incomprehensible creature.  But the emphasis makes me think more about the former interpretation--especially because the younger Kyon couldn't have possibly seen her as anything else.

They go on to talk about Sasaki's attitude and how she comes off to people, which I regard as especially apt, and Kyon shows more resolve and decisiveness, which is a heartwarming realization.

The thought sent shivers down her spine and she was suddenly immensely grateful that she wasn't alone. No, that wasn't it -- she was grateful that he was there with her. For a fleeting moment she felt an urge to touch him, to ascertain that his presence wasn't an illusion, but then she realized what it would look like and silently chided herself for being so sentimental.

She is incredibly restrained.

"At one point in my life I used to have sleeping troubles, so I often walked around the neighborhood at night. This area is especially tranquil so I liked to come here for a walk, but there isn't anything special to the discovery itself. I just happened to be at the right place at the right time."

The intensity of the emotion triggered by his words caught Sasaki unaware. The implied reason behind his sleeplessness and nightly walks resonated with her own sense of loneliness and she suddenly knew with breathtaking certainty that she would hug him regardless of consequences if he gave her the slightest excuse to do so. The possibility of losing her usual self-restraint in such a way was an idea she found at the same time disconcerting and fascinating.

But -- since she was with Kyon there wouldn't be an excuse forthcoming, would there? He hadn't brought her here with any hidden motives in mind, or mentioned his lonely walks in order to garner pity. She stole a reassuring glance at the man by her side, who was watching the sunrise in apparent contemplation, unaware of her internal turmoil.

And at last, that restraint begins to erode and crumble. She is confronting her feelings openly for perhaps the first time in the piece.  I don't catch what Kyon's implied reason might be--possibly Haruhi?

Still, she couldn't help wondering what it would be like. Even if she couldn't remember it -- if they had been together for so long, would her body somehow recognize the sensation, or had she lost everything from her previous life? If this life was the best of all the ones she could have had, was it selfish and greedy to ask for more?

I admit, I still can't get over that she treats this theory as basically fact when there isn't a shred of evidence.

Anyway, Sasaki steps back from the precipice of hugging Kyon, thinking that there must be some reason this place is special to him, and she won't make it her own instead.  I remain floored at her ability to subjugate her own desires; she thinks herself inconsiderate, and perhaps she is, just to justify her own need to deny herself, but anyone else might mistake it for altruisim of the highest order.

Sasaki relates how she wonders if all her memories are real, but she concludes that it doesn't matter if they are or aren't; she is a person now, and she embraces that and the experiences she's having, especially that with Kyon.  This does feel like a good level of progress for her, considering the dissatisfaction she seemed to feel at times earlier in the piece.

Scene 6: Kyon is tempted to leave his apartement as it is, lest it be deceptive.  I think this is consistent with his general eschewment of appearances, but the opposing temptation to try to impress Sasaki is also reasonable.

Sasaki's choice of takeout is a pragmatic and deliberately weighed decision.

They discuss Sasaki's career, and the idea of her working for a charity is considered, which seems to have her livened up quite a bit.  It's amazing how Sasaki's spirits have turned over the course of the piece to this point.  She seems much more optimistic now than before.

The topic of middle school and confessions comes up, and Kyon admits that he was obliquely trying test whether Sasaki would be interested in him back then.  I'll be curious as to your thinking on how this is consistent with his apparent lack of reaction to her getting drenched later in Rainy Day.  Sasaki is remarkably forthright that she was interested in him at the time, and she says she just didn't pick up on his hint at all.  Is that, too, consistent with Rainy Day?  Or should we conclude, then, that Sasaki believed love was a disease so adamantly because she knew herself to be infected with it?

"Precisely!" she agreed with an emphatic nod.  "Things may not have gone the way we dreamed, but what we have borne witness to shaped and defined us!"

A massive, massive dodge.  Saying they previously agreed to it is to resign both of them to preestablished fate.  Sasaki must know this is ridiculous, but she has no other moves to make to...preserve their mutual dignity, I guess.

"I think we might still be able to learn from things in our past, though," he said thoughtfully.  "I can't help but think it would benefit you slightly more to be at least somewhat more selfish in your outlook."

Kyon hits the nail on the head and drives it straight through the board.

Scene 7: Kyon drives Sasaki home, and he all but says flat out that he wants to be with her.  Sasaki, in turn, decides to forego any idea of working for a charity in another city to be with him also, as much as either of them are willing to say aloud.

Overall:  I feel Sasaki has a litle more focus and growth in this piece than Kyon.  Perhaps it's because I know Sasaki less well than Kyon, so his growth no longer catches me as much by surprise.  I can't be sure.  But I think we see a clear evolution in her willingness to indulge herself, to be selfish and to embrace her desires, while also being respectful of the past and of others.  She is captured very well, in my opinion:  from her overall distance from people to how she brightens up when Kyon is near and in her thoughts, yet always she remains restrained and measured.  She is, in my reading, always mild in expression, but there's much more going on with her under that, and the narration reflects that.

I must say I was a little surprised to see Kyon's development come about in the last couple scenes, talking about proactiveness.  This, to me, seemed to be less well explored in the early scenes, but it meshes better with his personality in the novels, so perhaps it needed less exploring.  Still, with Kyon as a paranormal investigator of sorts, I think I feel he is already rather proactive, in upholding the mission that Haruhi left behind with him.  Kyon doesn't seem to struggle with the idea of being with her; Scene 4, for instance, dwells mostly on Sasaki's marriage and divorce and fleshing out Kyon's theory.  Perhaps Kyon can be said to be fixated a bit on trying to understand the past and that has kept him from going forward into the future, but this feels like a stretch.  I'll be interested to hear what was intended.


Style and command

Spoiler: ShowHide

Sasaki had chosen the beige suit in anticipation of the searing hot afternoon temperatures predicted by the weather forecast; a modest comfort not afforded to the majority of white-collar samurai sharing the early morning commuter train with her. She stood impassively in her favorite corner, leaning against the back wall of the passenger car in apparent contemplation of the suburban scenery rushing past the window to the monotonous clatter of the train.

Saying the beige suit kinda makes me think I should already know about this suit.  This phrase starting with "a modest comfort..." seems like a parenthetical remark better set off by a dash or a comma, rather than a semicolon.

While securing her bodily integrity from potential molesters was certainly an ancillary benefit, it also drew attention away from the fact that from this vantage point she could entertain herself by discreetly observing other passengers.

Thus far, just three paragraphs in, I notice a lot of sentences like these, where everything just seems to go without pause or break.  I could easily imagine setting off the underlined phrase with commas to fit natural pauses.  On the other hand, leaving these commas off gives me a bit of a sense of speed to what's going on, which strikes me as strangely appropriate for being on a train.

Sasaki started from a man in his late twenties, standing in the middle of the corridor like the owner of the place. Jaw jutting out, he was practically radiating self-confidence while casually eyeing other passengers, as if looking for a challenger for his status. She dodged eye contact while analyzing the case. Upwardly mobile based on the attire and demeanor. Very competitive, a typical alpha. Which device could be used to sell him an idea? Posed as an implicit challenge, perhaps competitive sports with a strong emphasis on personality? Golf? Motorsports?

I suggest "started with".

She stole a second glance to affirm the assessment and noticed his wristwatch. Definitely motorsports.

I find the technique here interesting; we don't actually see anything about the watch, but just from associating it with racing and such, the reader is forced to create an image on their own.  Perhaps something with analogue needles, a black backing, and shiny metallic surfaces?

She sighed under her breath and this time actually turned her attention to the scene outside the window. The train was slowing down as it approached Kitaguchi station, and the traffic information on the display updated. She would have six minutes to catch the next southbound train on the perpendicular line; more than enough for a short walk between the platforms.

Another of these post-semicolon phrases not being independent clauses, in case this is indeed of interest.  I'll likely refrain from pointing these out further.  You guys can just search for semicolons and examine them on a case-by-case basis, I expect.

The train arrived at the platform and stopped with a minor jolt. Several passengers were leaving on this station, so she had to wait for a moment before getting out. The outside air felt refreshing both in a figurative and literal sense, and she joined the stream of people heading to the proper direction.

Suggest "leaving at".

Without introducing himself, since he himself was wearing fairly casual clothing, he nodded his head to the fretting priest and moved quietly to the offering box.  A donation bought him a few moments to study the area discretely, while contemplating.  He'd seen more than enough shrines in his time, so it wasn't difficult to judge -- to pick out the small signs that indicated the priest who took care of it over mere observances to tradition and the cultural heritage.

Is this right?  Maybe without "who"?

She had hesitated for a while before choosing the wisteria skirt suit that she was sparing for special occasions. By doing so she was certainly forfeiting her ability to blend inconspicuously in the crowd; instead of being able to discreetly observe other people, she could sense how she was now the target of many an aside glance. While the attention she was drawing was not disapproving by any measure, she would rather have done without.

There's quite a bit of focus on clothing in this piece--significant focus, but not overly burdensome.  I think this is a good way to go about discussing the significance of the outfit choice and its consequences as they go through Sasaki's mind.

"I hope that you find Kyoto-style kaiseki an acceptable option. I can attest to the quality of the seasonal dishes," Sasaki confided, leaning closer to keep the conversation private. Seeing his expression, she laughed and continued, "Of course I do not eat here daily. Never mind the price, I wouldn't possibly have enough time to spare for a full course. However, me and my colleagues sometimes bring our clients here for a dinner, if meetings last that long. Everyone agrees that this is the best place in the area."

Is Sasaki casual enough to say "me and X" vs. "X and I"?   She seems to use contractions only about half as often as I would consider normal, so this surprised me.  Not that that should be considered concrete if you go with the idea that this is all "originally" Japanese anyway, but it gives a certain feel nonetheless.

As familiar as the story was to him, he realized he hadn't shared it with anyone.  Well, there had been Koizumi, long ago, but he was gone with the others, now.  As silly as the entire story should have been, she listened raptly, nodding with every detail he revealed, as though the words were precious treasures -- or critical evidence needed to decide a case in court.

I like that this story is recounted off-screen; there's no need to bore the reader with what we already know, and this is exactly as to the point and straightforward as I'd hoped.

"From then, I had thought it might have something to do with a classmate or a group assignment, and didn't much think about it.  But if she was saying farewell at that time, she could also have been referring to you, might she not?"

I think this might be better as "At the time".

"So then, the supernatural being that was me was sent on an assignment?  And then found humans so fascinating that I chose to become one, and didn't finish my mission?" she wondered.  "At some point after this, Suzumiya would have appeared and accepted the responsibility -- and my supernatural powers?

Not "Suzumiya-san"?

He had called her the previous afternoon to tell the exact time of the appointment and advised her to wear something suitable for off-road hiking. Although she hadn't mentioned it, the latter part had posed a minor problem since her current wardrobe didn't exactly contain a set with those qualifications. After some consideration, a mid-season windbreaker and the a pair of almost unused sports shoes, which she had bought more with optimistic intentions than out of actual necessity, were given the order to yield for the greater good.

Ack, this sentence makes my eyes cross.  I've inlined some changes that might make it less of an indistinguishable set of words.

"I was also just reminded of something that I had almost forgotten. Complacency in a conversation with you is like pitting a bunch of elementary school kids against the Hanshin Tigers and expecting a fair chance of winning," he explained.

Suggesting this "the".

"A baseball match game was probably a poor analogue, but still -- wasn't there some psychological theorem about how highly competent persons have unrealistic expectations of the abilities of other people, just like incompetent persons have unrealistic expectations of their own abilities?"

Baseball games, soccer matches. Football games, baseketball games, tennis matches.  Hockey games...and that's all I can think of for now.

Overall:  You guys did a reasonably good job of meshing your styles together.  Indeed, I thought at first I could tell sars's scenes from Brian's largely by the use (or lack thereof) of dashes and ellipses, but you guys managed to mix these together (perhaps intentionally or not) in a way that foiled what I thought was a clever heuristic. :P

But in all seriousness, aside from some small things which I recognize are characteristic of sars, the piece is very unified, and the tone of the narration with respect to the characters is consistent and even.  Alternating perspectives enhances this piece, in my opinion.

Misc

Spoiler: ShowHide

If anyone had been using the same line often enough to pay attention to her propensity to choose the particular spot they might have mistaken the habit for a precaution against chikan, and she was content to leave it at that; though, she couldn't help feeling mildly annoyed by the fact that groping in public transport was common enough a phenomenon to have a specific word reserved just for it.

And I was going to say, "You might want to explain that word," and then you guys explained that word.  Heh.

"You're the ... paranormal investigator?" the priest asked anxiously.

My response:  "He's a freakin' ghost hunter!"  And I now imagine Kyon having his own television show with scientific equipment of dubious accuracy as he searches haunted shrines and temples for ghosts.  And now all the talk of hoaxes makes sense, too.

"The story goes that she visits great and profound misfortune on those who dare to take pieces of Hawaii with them when they leave.  The severity of this poor luck is never minor.  People claim loss of their homes, wealth, the death of pets and loved ones ... marriages ending...."  He trailed off with a frown, realizing how insensitive that could have been and hurriedly moved on, despite Sasaki's expression not changing very much.

Suave, Kyon!  Very suave.

Sasaki offered a melancholic smile at the commiseration.  Shaking her head slightly, she continued, "As I had mentioned, I was married.  Not long after high-school -- where I found that rock -- I attended Kyoudai to study."  She pause for another bite.  "Which was where we met.  I stayed in a dorm at the time, which would have made it easier for you to miss me."

But wasn't the rock from Hawaii?

He frowned.  "I admit, I do have some trouble envisioning you as the stereotypical home-maker," he mused.  "But even in high-school, you spoke to me of your interest in having at least one child."

Is this a stereotype in Japan?  Or a common enough image given the osmosis of Western culture?

"That is actually an important philosophical issue," she noted. "Quantum mechanics is so far outside the human realm of experience that on a fundamental level, nobody really understands it. When people talk about wave-particle duality, many forget that there are neither waves nor particles, only something that acts approximately like one or the other depending on how we look at it.

As a physicist myself, I must say I hate people who ask "Where is the particle?" when doing quanum problems.  It's an idea that seems predicated that the particle is fundamental and everything on top of that is just mythical mathematical construct.

She stopped in mid-thought and smiled. "But of course. Mu!"

And you've beaten Arakawa to the punch in using Mu in a story.  Forbis will be quite saddened, I'm sure.

Theme

I've saved theme for last now, since I'm making only overall comments.  I can take away quite clearly the idea that the past is the past, to be treasured and not intruded upon, but also to be built upon with the future.  That's an admirable and lovely goal, and I'm pleased to hear it.  I think it gets quite nicely at Sasaki's main conflict, and to a lesser extent Kyon's as well.

I admit, I initially thought that this piece was going for the search for the supernatural no matter what, but I was pleased it didn't do that, for it would've taken away from the focus on Kyon and Sasaki.

I find I have less to say here than I thought, perhaps because it's all intertwined with character development, and so I feel I've already covered that ground.  Well, that speaks to a good story in my mind.


Congratulations to both of you on a successful collaboration.  I literally said, "Wow!" when I was finished.  Thank you both for sharing.

[Onyxlamb]

The Jinja Honcho is referred to as "The Association of Shino Shrines"; I assume Shino is meant to be Shinto. For the most part though, Muphrid has been very thorough with the finer points of editing; this was the only remaining typo I noticed.

Great job, both of you. I'm always impressed by the quality of collaboration stories like these, I can only imagine they take more time and effort by an order of magnitude due to the amount of collaboration and cooperation they require.

[Grahf]

There was a sense of weightiness here while I was reading that I don't tend to find in most fiction. It definitely made for a different reading experience from what I'm used to, but a good one nonetheless. The revelation about Haruhi was surprising, but for some reason

Spoiler: ShowHide

the lack of any real answers

didn't bother me too much. I interpreted that as life still being a positive experience even if you don't know all the answers to the questions that get tossed your way.

[lolipettanko]

I got a very strong "Life goes on" vibe from the last scene. Made me feel a bit sad that everything was coming to a close. I can't really pinpoint what made it feel so powerful.

I assume Sasaki is a Christmas Cake at this point? :P

[sarsaparilla]

On Muphrid's comments:

First of all, I really appreciate such an extensive analysis, both for the insights it provides, and for the obvious amount of effort it takes to write one.

I will be mostly addressing issues related to those parts that I wrote myself.

Plot and structure

Spoiler: ShowHide

Scene 1: [...]  The scene does a good job of establishing the situation and giving us something to look forward to, but I don't get a clear feeling of where it would go after Kyon and Sasaki meet again.  Not to say that such is necessary, only that as a reader, the future is ill-defined beyond that, at that stage.

The first two scenes were deliberately much shorter (2k words vs. the 6-8k words of the following scenes) both to act as an informal introductory part, and to cue the reader to the alternating third person limited narration. Thus, avoiding the introduction of the leitmotif until the third scene wasn't in my opinion putting it too far away.

Scene 3: [...] Haruhi's fate is quite a surprise, and I think this is a strong point of the piece.  It fits what what Kyon has been doing.

This is the original concept that Brian presented to me, and the question was whether a working story can be constructed around it (apparently, the answer is 'yes').

Still, I think you guys may have written yourselves into a corner with dialogue interspersed with a meal.  While there's a little wiggle room during Kyon's recollection of his investigation at the shrine, there's not a lot of room to be loose with time.  It's not plot-critical, but it did hit me as, "Hmm, is it really time for dessert already?"

I was aware of the timing issues. Especially because of the forced interruption there was a danger of not getting as far as the dessert, but since it would have been very rude to leave before the meal was finished, I sped up the serving of the dishes just a little bit. On one hand, each kaiseki dish is small enough that it should be possible to eat it rather quickly; on the other, does the pace of dishes appear implausible enough to warrant re-scheduling of the scene?

There are also serious implications for having Nagato, Koizumi, Asahina, etc. all disappear out of the blue.  It troubles me, at least, to think that they could all just go poof, when at least there's a chance Haruhi is still out there, somewhere.

The intended implication was that the other members of the SOS Brigade were a sort of Haruhi's 'supernatural entourage', so they would have gone wherever she did, and thus would still exist in the same sense that Haruhi does. This issue should probably be elaborated in the text.

I was overall pleased to see that the conversations about Haruhi and Sasaki's true nature remained, ultimately, speculation, and that let me cast the speculation on what Sasaki was and how she came to lose power and such to be merely the attempts of two people to understand something spectactular, no more and no less.

That was the intended angle, so it's encouraging to hear that it worked!

The piece is rather tranquil, and it amazes me how much mileage you can get just out of these two talking (which is what they do, in large part).

The two of them are not exactly an action pair, and that points out a very basic fact of the novels -- while a relatively tranquil, drama-free setting can work in small scale, there is only so much mileage that can be gotten out of an essentially conflict-free situation, regardless of how favorable the characters themselves find their circumstances. Thus, there could never be a 'Melancholy of Sasaki' series of novels while still keeping the characters true to themselves.

Characterization and development

Spoiler: ShowHide

On Kyon's apology:

Very formal, is the impression I take from this. Almost not like Kyon, or perhaps like him in a moment of earnestness and serious regret.

Although it is not shown yet, Kyon is silently chiding himself for making the incorrect assumption that Sasaki was one of the disappeared persons. At the moment, he must re-evaluate his basic assumptions about the situation.

There's quite a bit of admiration for what Kyon does and how he does it--making a personal connection, as she says.  Perhaps this reflects on how she feels her job is the antithesis of such a thing: making impersonal observations about people in a collective, statistical sense.

There's certainly that, as well as Sasaki's general appreciation of Kyon's company, but also a hint of my inner fangirl speaking about the canon series itself -- how I was mostly hooked by Kyon's exceptionally personal and relatable style of narration.

This passage puzzles me.  It seems that Sasaki does not mean to broach the subject that Kyon believes she is broaching, and that Kyon jumps to a conclusion that did not follow.  Sasaki assumes Kyon has an assistant?  Kyon thinks she means a partner, a lover.  Or perhaps she is asking that question after all (which would fit with the "unwarranted assumption").  If she is indeed asking that question, then her interest in him seems much more overt than she even realized or would admit to herself.

It was intended that Sasaki does indeed assume that Kyon and Haruhi are together (or at least working together). She would have been able to observe the two of them around canon events and for a couple of times after that, and based on her understanding of their characters would have seen it as a foregone conclusion that they would end up together. Very specifically, she would have seen that Haruhi can provide Kyon the kind of excitement he craves for, but what Sasaki herself couldn't provide -- so she would be emotionally invested in the two of them staying together, as in, "I've given up pursuing my own happiness in favor of Kyon's, so you better not drop that ball."

That Sasaki had followed his articles would have reinforced her assumption that Kyon and Haruhi are co-operating on some level, just because of the topics.

I believe that the question is, what changes should be made to convey the proper intent?

Anyway, later on in this scene, Sasaki has just reacted to Kyon's story about Haruhi, and she has this feeling she can't describe, and later again when she settles on saying that Kyon's attitude is admirable.  She seems really out of touch with her own feelings, as if the person she's least capable of analyzing is herself.

As an introvert, she should actually be quite adept at analyzing herself in most regards. However, this doesn't preclude a huge blind spot in a very specific location -- a circumstance the story builds on in the later scenes.

Sasaki's description of her marriage and divorce is very...neutral, very matter-of-fact.  Almost sounds like she and her husband were friends who happened to get married, rather than people in "love".  Not that Sasaki seems like the kind of person who would engage in romance in a typical fashion, but still, it feels like either she's distancing herself from her emotions deliberately...or she really is just that way.

She is distancing herself, absolutely, because otherwise she would have to deal with the possibility that all the important decisions in her life have been one big mistake after another. And, since the decisions naturally followed from her principles and understanding of what kind of a person she is, those would have to be questioned as well.

The whole subsequent conversation about whether Sasaki is or is not a girl and what it means to categorize people puzzles me a bit.  To me, the obvious answer is that Sasaki does want to be seen as a girl to him, as someone who could in principle hold his romantic interest (despite her mental insistence that this is not what she wants).  If not for emphasis on the girl aspect, I would accept that she wants to be seen (and is seen) as a human being, or as a person in a looser definition of the word that can include aliens and other beings, rather than as an incomprehensible creature.  But the emphasis makes me think more about the former interpretation--especially because the younger Kyon couldn't have possibly seen her as anything else.

I have a very clear feeling of how Sasaki sees the issue, but I have some difficulties in explaining it in words. Of the alternatives mentioned above, the 'girl' aspect is closest to the implied issue, but that is not a complete explanation in itself.

Categories and labels are tools for arranging knowledge, but they may just as well be a hindrance to understanding (as elaborated later on in the scene). So, even if Kyon acknowledges and accepts that Sasaki is 'a Sasaki', does he categorize 'a Sasaki' into 'waves' or 'particles', or does he eschew all such categorizations and see the known properties of 'a Sasaki' as the defining characteristics of the entity? Or, in other words, does Kyon see her mostly as a specimen of a class, or is he willing to consider her as an individual, accepting her qualities as they are without any preconceived notions of what should constitute a 'proper' Sasaki?

To her, there is a huge difference between whether he considers her a friend because some sleight-of-hand categorization allows him to not see her as a girl and thus at least in principle a potential love interest, making the situation 'safe'; or he acknowledges this part of her but considers her a friend regardless.

Sasaki is very happy to find out that it is the latter; Kyon doesn't make any categorizations and accepts her fully as she is, and thus avoids reducing her in any manner.

I don't know whether this explained anything.... >_>

I don't catch what Kyon's implied reason might be--possibly Haruhi?

That is what Sasaki infers from the situation, considering that Haruhi disappeared into a sunrise according to Kyon's account of the events. She assumes (correctly, in the frame of the story) that his sleeplessness was caused by the loneliness felt after Haruhi's departure, combined with the uncertainty of the situation and the path forward. She is not yet acknowledging her own needs and desires directly, but that doesn't prevent her feeling an overwhelming urge to provide comfort to Kyon at the situation, because of his perceived needs.

Although it is easy to miss, the situation is largely mirrored a bit later when Sasaki talks about her closed space nightmares.

I admit, I still can't get over that she treats this theory as basically fact when there isn't a shred of evidence.

It is a kind of a defense mechanism. She is aware of the natural affinity she feels to Kyon, and the effect his presence has on her, and the theory provides a plausible explanation for that. The alternative would be, naturally, to acknowledge a much simpler explanation -- with the side effect that she would also have to acknowledge that for a person who has fallen in love, she has done a horribly bad job at managing the situation.

The topic of middle school and confessions comes up, and Kyon admits that he was obliquely trying test whether Sasaki would be interested in him back then.  I'll be curious as to your thinking on how this is consistent with his apparent lack of reaction to her getting drenched later in Rainy Day.  Sasaki is remarkably forthright that she was interested in him at the time, and she says she just didn't pick up on his hint at all.  Is that, too, consistent with Rainy Day?  Or should we conclude, then, that Sasaki believed love was a disease so adamantly because she knew herself to be infected with it?

I think that the characterization is consistent. We see the situation of Rainy Day from Kyon's perspective, and thus there is a little bit of uncertainty in the interpretation, since Kyon can be remarkably unreliable on certain topics. My attempt at consolidating this story with RD would be as following: Kyon believes that Sasaki has turned him down, but is still content with them being close friends. His own thoughts and assumed disposition distract him enough that he doesn't really notice the immediate problem with Sasaki's blouse getting wet (but gets embarrassed once it's pointed out). This is facilitated by Sasaki's physique -- as she points out, she is not built like Okamoto. On her behalf, Sasaki believes that Kyon doesn't have any romantic interest toward her, and even suspects that he might not see her as a girl at all. She is also content to be friends with him, regardless. The events in RD actually reinforce her belief that Kyon doesn't see her as a potential love interest.

I feel Sasaki has a litle more focus and growth in this piece than Kyon.  Perhaps it's because I know Sasaki less well than Kyon, so his growth no longer catches me as much by surprise.  I can't be sure.

This is something that we also noticed while writing the story -- it ended up more one-sided than the initial outline suggested. However, this is understandable through the framing of the story. Kyon has had time to adjust himself to the major point of deviation before the story begins, and thus he has less distance left to travel. In some aspects, Sasaki has even regressed from her canon personality, which makes her development much more conspicuous, as it all happens during the story events and represents a larger distance to get to even ground.

Style and command

Spoiler: ShowHide

She stole a second glance to affirm the assessment and noticed his wristwatch. Definitely motorsports.

I find the technique here interesting; we don't actually see anything about the watch, but just from associating it with racing and such, the reader is forced to create an image on their own.  Perhaps something with analogue needles, a black backing, and shiny metallic surfaces?

Somebody might see that as lazy writing, but I like to leave things for the reader's imagination to fill up. In my unashamedly stereotypical thinking, I thought that a golfer would more likely have had a sleek and inconspicuous design piece, something spelling 'style' and 'refinement', and a motorsports fan a 'Watch (this)!' just as you described, something that would go better with sandals, shorts and a T-shirt than with a business suit.

There's quite a bit of focus on clothing in this piece--significant focus, but not overly burdensome.  I think this is a good way to go about discussing the significance of the outfit choice and its consequences as they go through Sasaki's mind.

There's an ongoing theme in the story related to how Sasaki has become 'formalized' through largely immersing herself in her job and the associated culture, and how her interactions with Kyon gradually remove that burden. The development is reflected in her speech and behavior, but also in other aspects as in her choice of clothing and food (from a very formal suit and a haute cuisine lunch to a windbreaker, sports shoes and curry from a local takeaway joint). This was supposed to go hand in hand with overall relaxation of her principles and self-imposed restraints.

Is Sasaki casual enough to say "me and X" vs. "X and I"?   She seems to use contractions only about half as often as I would consider normal, so this surprised me.  Not that that should be considered concrete if you go with the idea that this is all "originally" Japanese anyway, but it gives a certain feel nonetheless.

Point well made, at the situation she should definitely use the more formal construction.

Ack, this sentence makes my eyes cross.

Tee hee, the whole paragraph was initially one sentence, and Brian already asked me to break it up a bit. This is a persistent problem for me, caused by the compactness of my native language where a single word can often contain as much information as a whole sentence in English (as in, 'Istahtaisinkohan?' -- 'I wonder whether I should sit down for a while?', grammatically derived from the stem 'istua' -- 'to sit') and a sentence as much as a half-page paragraph.

Misc

As a physicist myself, I must say I hate people who ask "Where is the particle?" when doing quanum problems.  It's an idea that seems predicated that the particle is fundamental and everything on top of that is just mythical mathematical construct.

Are there any factual or conceptual errors in Sasaki's description of the related issues? While she approaches the topic as a philosopher rather than a physicist, I wouldn't still want her to be spouting nonsensical pseudo-science.

[Brian]

There has been no progress between when the conversation ended in the lunch scene and now; it's more like these two scenes (which are, admittedly, arbitrary in their division) are one big unit, just with an artificial boundary separating the two, with Kyon's explanation merely spaced out by more character interaction.  Cool character interaction, but only interaction nonetheless.  It feels like we've gone ahead, but without making a lot of progress.

A little bit, it is the same conversation, though.  Part of the reasoning for the shift is actually to allow a shift in viewpoints.  Looking back now, I see the extra description and interaction a meta-example of Kyon focusing more on individuals and actions, and also of Sasaki focusing more on Kyon's words as someone (who writes articles) she finds fascinating.  I don't know that it was intentional, but....

Later, another theory comes up that Sasaki merely wished to avoid being a housewife, but this to me seems like a bit of a false dichotomy; while Sasaki would've had to consider giving up her job, surely there were other jobs she could've pursued.

Not really....  Japan has progressed a good deal from the immediate post-WWII era, but being a single mother is less stigmatized than being in a relationship and being a working mother.  I can't recall all the details particularly, but gender roles are pretty heavily defined, to the point that a woman who wants to succeed in the business world is likely to go on a so-called 'womb-strike'.

The expectation is that a woman who marries, regardless of her education background and success in the workplace, will quit her job and stay at home.  Sometimes they will avoid not just having children, but getting married at all; since they don't need their own places it's not terribly uncommon to just stay with the parents anyway, in a phenomenon labeled 'parasite-singles'.

This is my understanding from reading Michael Zielenziger's Shutting Out The Sun.  It may not be universally correct, but I think it's not unreasonable to say that some of Sasaki's co-workers hold that belief; particularly the one who had recently wrested control away from the retiring boss.

Is that, too, consistent with Rainy Day?  Or should we conclude, then, that Sasaki believed love was a disease so adamantly because she knew herself to be infected with it?

Sars already responded to this point, but I don't believe that Rainy Day precludes the possibility -- especially since if I understand the timing, her 'love is just a chemical reaction' speech (Haruhi is the one who says 'disease') should have happened before the swimming pool thing.

Still, with Kyon as a paranormal investigator of sorts, I think I feel he is already rather proactive, in upholding the mission that Haruhi left behind with him.  Kyon doesn't seem to struggle with the idea of being with her; Scene 4, for instance, dwells mostly on Sasaki's marriage and divorce and fleshing out Kyon's theory.  Perhaps Kyon can be said to be fixated a bit on trying to understand the past and that has kept him from going forward into the future, but this feels like a stretch.  I'll be interested to hear what was intended.

While it's true that Kyon is proactive in some senses, he's also more alone in the world.  Until he encounters Sasaki again, he believes he is the only one he's met who's had real interaction with the paranormal.  In fact, though he's relatively well adjusted (almost agressively so), there is the possibility (though it's not brought up directly in the story) that if he's the only one who remembers it, it was just a dream or delusion.  Sasaki is someone who can confirm that it was a real thing, and has also interacted with something no one else Kyon has met can truly claim to have.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Many of the events in this story are allusions to the canon, or it's implied that many of the events in canon may be applied to this story.  Disappearance in this framework might (for example) illustrate part of the 'story behind the story' to Kyon, which communicates that in addition to everything else, the only way he'd end up in a world like that is if it were by his choice.  There are other examples as well; that's merely one I found relatively meaningful.

The original outline didn't actually offer much before Sars pointed out how it could be improved; the premise was merely that Haruhi had 'gone on' somewhere, and Kyon met with Sasaki.

Is this right?  Maybe without "who"?

Oops. :x

I think this might be better as "At the time".

Makes sense!

Not "Suzumiya-san"?

Fixed. >_>;;

You guys did a reasonably good job of meshing your styles together.  Indeed, I thought at first I could tell sars's scenes from Brian's largely by the use (or lack thereof) of dashes and ellipses, but you guys managed to mix these together (perhaps intentionally or not) in a way that foiled what I thought was a clever heuristic. :P

But in all seriousness, aside from some small things which I recognize are characteristic of sars, the piece is very unified, and the tone of the narration with respect to the characters is consistent and even.  Alternating perspectives enhances this piece, in my opinion.

I tried to match Sars' style when writing dialog, so that would be consistant.  Other than that, I don't think we actually coordinated on it, since the intent was to have the PoVs provide a contrast.  I was really impressed at how well she adopted some of my (probably abused) ellipses and dashes. >_>;;

[...]Not long after high-school -- where I found that rock -- I attended Kyoudai to study."[...]

But wasn't the rock from Hawaii?

Should have been 'when', not 'where'. >_>;

Is this a stereotype in Japan?  Or a common enough image given the osmosis of Western culture?

See the above comment about Shutting Out the Sun, but yeah, it's a pretty widespread stereotype, as I understand it. <_<

Congratulations to both of you on a successful collaboration.  I literally said, "Wow!" when I was finished.  Thank you both for sharing.

And thank you very much for the feedback!

[Arakawa]

I enjoyed this story; it turned out much more substantial than I'd been expecting just from Brian's allusions to a collaboration being in-progress. I feel a bit daunted to comprehensively comment on the whole thing, but there were some interesting things that stood out. This is more of a review/commentary than a set of critiques/suggestions.

Spoiler: ShowHide

Some of the reasoning behind their speculations turned out a bit difficult to follow as I went along; that didn't affect my enjoyment of the actual idea of the story (which actually hinges on their own understanding of the situation being imperfect, anyways). Bringing the mythology of sidhe into it helped and hindered in equal parts, as my brain had a definite metaphor to latch onto, which was only partly adequate to the actual situation with Haruhi. I guess this is the exact same problem as with the original creation of such myths, since developing a mythology to describe otherwise unexplainable encounters creates as much confusion as it resolves....



Regarding Sasaki's character, I couldn't help but notice that, early on, she claims in her narration an ability to decide on and project whatever persona is best for the interaction at hand (based on when she idly speculates about the best manner to speak with each person on the train). At least this is my impression, but it seems she is being presented as someone with much higher-than-normal aptitude at reading a social situation and calculating how to respond to people. However, unlike many people with moderately-high social aptitude (who can lose themselves in the role they're playing), she seems to always remain uncomfortably aware that she is playing a calculated role.

However, the entirety of this story is spent with Kyon, making her hesitant to apply such calculation to him. So this ability feels like it's brought up once at the beginning and then set aside for the entire rest of the story, and Sasaki is often left awkward or hesitant about what to do.

It makes sense, as she is meeting with an old friend and these are abilities that hinder trust as much as they manufacture it. Many people are made uneasy by the notion that their behaviour could be calculated and taken into account on this level; indeed, it took me a while to realize that this may well have been the issue with her earlier marriage. Indeed, if I had been in Sasaki's position with such abilities, the idea/temptation to use them to engineer a 'perfect marriage' might have gotten overwhelming at some point, even though a reckless use of them would serve to undermine the actually necessary trust for that over the long term....

I guess my question is whether a person with this extreme level of social aptitude would have an outward state of genuinely 'being themselves' that people would still perceive as natural and considerate*, or just a state that is honest in terms of communicating how good she is at analyzing people and situations. Sasaki, with her characteristic analytical style of speaking around Kyon, feels like she's leaning towards the latter case, since as she runs into Kyon she is still on the level of calculating all the possible greetings she might use for him, though she opts for the most straightforward one. So, is this ability something that she can turn on and off at will, or is it just an attribute of how she perceives the world?

(* Being considerate involves reading the other person and anticipating their needs to some extent; but Sasaki's problem in this fic seems to be that she is generally *too* good at this sort of thing, and would have to ignore what she normally perceives.)

"I have an apartment in Ashiya, but my workplace is here. Now I am feeling guilty for not staying in contact after the high school. To think that we may have been passing each other daily without noticing...."

Initially, when reading this story, I felt torn whether the above should read "now I'm feeling guilty", or not. Based on the earlier knowledge she displays, Sasaki would know perfectly well that (in the English-language medium of the fic) 'Now I'm feeling guilty' would be a more natural way to speak in this context. But based on the speculations I just made about the character, it makes me wonder if the slight formality here might be a deliberate choice.

This also makes Kyon's character an interesting complement to Sasaki, since he has a much more straightforward approach to being considerate that excludes such worries. I think she remarks at one point that he uses the same conversational style in his articles as he does in person; the former is not a facade as with most journalism, and this explains why she is more comfortable around him than she is around other people. Kyon always deals with people as people, and his approach allows Sasaki the same thing, since regardless of whether she's human or supernatural or an expert at reading people or just normal at it, she's still subject to the principle Kyon was always coming back to in canon when circumstances caused him to doubt his relations to someone. (Namely: Haruhi is just Haruhi. Yuki is just Yuki. In this story, Sasaki is just Sasaki.) This allows him to just pay attention to Sasaki, without worrying about whether he's transparent or opaque to her.

The intended implication was that the other members of the SOS Brigade were a sort of Haruhi's 'supernatural entourage', so they would have gone wherever she did, and thus would still exist in the same sense that Haruhi does. This issue should probably be elaborated in the text.

I think, whatever the result of lampshading the notion that they are an 'entourage', you should take care to leave it fairly open to speculation. Particularly since it feels a bit odd that Haruhi's 'entourage' in this case seems to include the beings who continued hanging around Sasaki, apparently after she'd already become human.

He paused to clear his throat. "I don't know if I can describe it properly. It didn't feel as much like her vanishing as it felt like I was myself fading from one reality to another where she wasn't present any more, and the light that I had seen was that of the rising sun, just breaching the horizon. Whatever it was, it didn't change the fact that she was gone."

This particular passage puts a somewhat abstract speculation, in which the planes inhabited by Haruhi and Kyon are not so much separate realities, as coexisting levels of the same reality.

[spoiler]
However, Haruhi and Sasaki are originally phenomena or beings who are on some level of organization that is imperceptible to human beings (and perhaps, typically, vice versa). (There's thematic support for this at the beginning, in Sasaki seeming to see the crowd at the train station first as composed of individual people operating according to human laws, and then as a crowd / societal organism, which indeed operates according to unrelated laws. Even though the latter is also composed of people, they are irrelevant to its organization; their individual actions cannot affect the outcome on the scale of the crowd, so the individual people may as well not exist in that picture. This speculation of different levels of organization is a somewhat similar notion to my speculation of coterminous realities.)

In this case Sasaki was not so much 'sent' to the human plane, as already present the whole time (on the higher level of organization), going about her own business. She took an interest in humanity, and at this point she did not move from one plane to another as... the two planes becoming entangled, after a fashion. Certain phenomena on the higher plane were translated into terms that are comprehensible on the human scale and able to influence things there, namely the human forms of Haruhi and Sasaki, and some kinds of beings or phenomena that surround them on their plane of existence, but that can only be translated into science fiction cliches on the human scale... Thus some things such as the IDSE and its interest in Haruhi have an exact analogue in Haruhi's original level of existence, which is best translated in human terms as 'aliens investigating her'. Thus whatever development, say, Yuki experiences as a result of her interaction with Kyon, does have analogous (if difficult-to-understand) repercussions even when she's no longer 'in' the human realm, so those events were not rendered meaningless by Yuki's subsequent disappearance.

Sasaki eventually becomes purely human, and not just an incomprehensible being who is rendered as human on the human scale of perception.

Then, when Haruhi 'leaves' Kyon, it's not so much her travelling back to a home reality, as undoing the entanglement that made certain aspects of the higher level of organization perceptible on the human scale. This explains why Sasaki's entourage disappears in the same event -- they didn't move to a different place, the conditions that made it possible for them to interact with the human scale of events just went away.

I'm not sure how much this speculation meshes with your own notions about what was going on, but I found it interesting to think about.
[/spoiler]

These are all fairly peripheral observations to the main thread of the fic, which is simply the dynamic between Kyon and Sasaki. I enjoyed that part, and I don't think I'm skilled enough to suggest anything for it :3

Definitely worth the effort. Thanks for sticking it through with the idea, both of you!

[Brian]

The Jinja Honcho is referred to as "The Association of Shino Shrines"; I assume Shino is meant to be Shinto. For the most part though, Muphrid has been very thorough with the finer points of editing; this was the only remaining typo I noticed.

Whoops!  Thanks for the catch. :p

Great job, both of you. I'm always impressed by the quality of collaboration stories like these, I can only imagine they take more time and effort by an order of magnitude due to the amount of collaboration and cooperation they require.

I can only think that it was worth the effort, myself; glad you enjoyed it.

There was a sense of weightiness here while I was reading that I don't tend to find in most fiction. It definitely made for a different reading experience from what I'm used to, but a good one nonetheless. [...] I interpreted that as life still being a positive experience even if you don't know all the answers to the questions that get tossed your way.

Excellent; thanks for the feedback. :3

I got a very strong "Life goes on" vibe from the last scene. Made me feel a bit sad that everything was coming to a close. I can't really pinpoint what made it feel so powerful.

I attribute it to Sars doing such a great job of capturing Sasaki.

I assume Sasaki is a Christmas Cake at this point? :P

Technically, she'd have to be, if Imouto was old enough for college, by at least one year.  Though, at this point, the stigma of being a divorcee is significantly greater than that of being over 25 and unwed; the whole 'Christmas Cake' concept is a byproduct of Japan's economic boom in the 70s, and they've been in a slump (if not a collapse) for quite some time since then, so it's especially n outdated concept by the time set in this fic....

[Muphrid]

For sars:

Plot and Structure:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Still, I think you guys may have written yourselves into a corner with dialogue interspersed with a meal.  While there's a little wiggle room during Kyon's recollection of his investigation at the shrine, there's not a lot of room to be loose with time.  It's not plot-critical, but it did hit me as, "Hmm, is it really time for dessert already?"

I was aware of the timing issues. Especially because of the forced interruption there was a danger of not getting as far as the dessert, but since it would have been very rude to leave before the meal was finished, I sped up the serving of the dishes just a little bit. On one hand, each kaiseki dish is small enough that it should be possible to eat it rather quickly; on the other, does the pace of dishes appear implausible enough to warrant re-scheduling of the scene?

It struck me as a little fast, but not extremely so--not enough that I could say for sure it wasn't all perfectly normal.  I just pointed this out because this is something I'm cognizant of when writing similar scenes.

There are also serious implications for having Nagato, Koizumi, Asahina, etc. all disappear out of the blue.  It troubles me, at least, to think that they could all just go poof, when at least there's a chance Haruhi is still out there, somewhere.

The intended implication was that the other members of the SOS Brigade were a sort of Haruhi's 'supernatural entourage', so they would have gone wherever she did, and thus would still exist in the same sense that Haruhi does. This issue should probably be elaborated in the text.

Yeah, it makes me wonder more what kind of fantastical realm that could be, but that does stand to reason.

Characterization and development

Spoiler: ShowHide

This passage puzzles me.  It seems that Sasaki does not mean to broach the subject that Kyon believes she is broaching, and that Kyon jumps to a conclusion that did not follow.  Sasaki assumes Kyon has an assistant?  Kyon thinks she means a partner, a lover.  Or perhaps she is asking that question after all (which would fit with the "unwarranted assumption").  If she is indeed asking that question, then her interest in him seems much more overt than she even realized or would admit to herself.

It was intended that Sasaki does indeed assume that Kyon and Haruhi are together (or at least working together). She would have been able to observe the two of them around canon events and for a couple of times after that, and based on her understanding of their characters would have seen it as a foregone conclusion that they would end up together. Very specifically, she would have seen that Haruhi can provide Kyon the kind of excitement he craves for, but what Sasaki herself couldn't provide -- so she would be emotionally invested in the two of them staying together, as in, "I've given up pursuing my own happiness in favor of Kyon's, so you better not drop that ball."

That Sasaki had followed his articles would have reinforced her assumption that Kyon and Haruhi are co-operating on some level, just because of the topics.

I believe that the question is, what changes should be made to convey the proper intent?

I think the idea that Haruhi's involved with Kyon's research in some way, either as an influence or more directly, may need to come up.  I could imagine, for instance, that Sasaki thinks the work is simply too much for one man to tackle, that there's a clear influence from Haruhi in his work, and so she asks what she thinks is a natural question.

I think what concerns me about that passage is merely that Sasaki's question, though improvised to try to move the conversation away from something serious, does not clearly follow from something that was already on her mind, so I'm looking at it and I'm wondering, "Where did that come from?"

So while I find your explanation of Sasaki's mindset logical, it might be an improvement to have a little more of that logic spelled out in the piece.  If I have a bead on your Sasaki, I suspect she would never think explicitly that Kyon and Haruhi are a pair (or that the narration need not explicitly suggest this), but merely by assuming Haruhi is still a part of Kyon's life, the implication is clear enough.

The whole subsequent conversation about whether Sasaki is or is not a girl and what it means to categorize people puzzles me a bit.  To me, the obvious answer is that Sasaki does want to be seen as a girl to him, as someone who could in principle hold his romantic interest (despite her mental insistence that this is not what she wants).  If not for emphasis on the girl aspect, I would accept that she wants to be seen (and is seen) as a human being, or as a person in a looser definition of the word that can include aliens and other beings, rather than as an incomprehensible creature.  But the emphasis makes me think more about the former interpretation--especially because the younger Kyon couldn't have possibly seen her as anything else.

I have a very clear feeling of how Sasaki sees the issue, but I have some difficulties in explaining it in words. Of the alternatives mentioned above, the 'girl' aspect is closest to the implied issue, but that is not a complete explanation in itself.

Categories and labels are tools for arranging knowledge, but they may just as well be a hindrance to understanding (as elaborated later on in the scene). So, even if Kyon acknowledges and accepts that Sasaki is 'a Sasaki', does he categorize 'a Sasaki' into 'waves' or 'particles', or does he eschew all such categorizations and see the known properties of 'a Sasaki' as the defining characteristics of the entity? Or, in other words, does Kyon see her mostly as a specimen of a class, or is he willing to consider her as an individual, accepting her qualities as they are without any preconceived notions of what should constitute a 'proper' Sasaki?

To her, there is a huge difference between whether he considers her a friend because some sleight-of-hand categorization allows him to not see her as a girl and thus at least in principle a potential love interest, making the situation 'safe'; or he acknowledges this part of her but considers her a friend regardless.

Sasaki is very happy to find out that it is the latter; Kyon doesn't make any categorizations and accepts her fully as she is, and thus avoids reducing her in any manner.

I don't know whether this explained anything.... >_>

Heh, it does.  It actually does.  And it is (and yet also is not) along the lines I had considered.  I misinterpreted Sasaki's focus to be on the present when she's more interested in the past, in the younger Kyon who gave her a lift on his bicycle.  I think in part I misled myself with focus on the ongoing discussion about the theory of Haruhi and Sasaki and so on, through which I focused on something further removed from what was being talked about than...what was actually being talked about.

It's actually much simpler and more straightforward than I thought, and that's good.

I admit, I still can't get over that she treats this theory as basically fact when there isn't a shred of evidence.

It is a kind of a defense mechanism. She is aware of the natural affinity she feels to Kyon, and the effect his presence has on her, and the theory provides a plausible explanation for that. The alternative would be, naturally, to acknowledge a much simpler explanation -- with the side effect that she would also have to acknowledge that for a person who has fallen in love, she has done a horribly bad job at managing the situation.

I should've amended this remark of mine upon completing the story.  It's much easier for me to have perspective on it now than in the moment, when I wasn't sure what would happen.  It now feels to me that, to them, it's something they can both accept as true while they talk about it while not necessarily proclaiming it to themselves as absolute fact.  There is that mutual understanding, and she has all the reasons you mention for treating the idea more seriously, also.

Style and Command

She stole a second glance to affirm the assessment and noticed his wristwatch. Definitely motorsports.

I find the technique here interesting; we don't actually see anything about the watch, but just from associating it with racing and such, the reader is forced to create an image on their own.  Perhaps something with analogue needles, a black backing, and shiny metallic surfaces?

Somebody might see that as lazy writing, but I like to leave things for the reader's imagination to fill up. In my unashamedly stereotypical thinking, I thought that a golfer would more likely have had a sleek and inconspicuous design piece, something spelling 'style' and 'refinement', and a motorsports fan a 'Watch (this)!' just as you described, something that would go better with sandals, shorts and a T-shirt than with a business suit.

I don't think it's lazy at all; I think it's economical as well as effective, and if you don't mind, I may try to steal it from time to time.  Of late I've spent a lot more time focusing on large-scale stuff: plot structure, theme, characterization, and so on, but the small-scale work of putting together a story and painting a picture with words is so very important, too, and I think this is a very interesting alternative to straightforward description.  KLSymph was around IRC some weeks ago, going over his Show vs. Tell article (which I hope he may finish and present at some point), and it really reminded me how important it is to get the small-scale right.

Misc

As a physicist myself, I must say I hate people who ask "Where is the particle?" when doing quanum problems.  It's an idea that seems predicated that the particle is fundamental and everything on top of that is just mythical mathematical construct.

Are there any factual or conceptual errors in Sasaki's description of the related issues? While she approaches the topic as a philosopher rather than a physicist, I wouldn't still want her to be spouting nonsensical pseudo-science.

No, no, I was actually trying to compliment Sasaki's viewpoint--that something like an electron may at times behave like a wave and at other times like a particle, but it is really neither. 

She goes on to say that the fundamental nature of such things is a mystery, which I could quibble with--I take the position that they simple are their own things, harkening back to the idea that Sasaki may simply be 'a Sasaki'.  But Sasaki's position on this doesn't strike me as wrong by any stretch--I think this is an active topic in pedagogical circles.

(Point of fact: in trying to say what an electron is, I considered whether to say it's a particle, despite duality, or merely a fermion, which neatly shifts the burden to defining what a fermion is.)

People will be trying to figure out how to teach and understand quantum for the next hundred years, I imagine, so I think you're on fine ground here.


For Brian:

Later, another theory comes up that Sasaki merely wished to avoid being a housewife, but this to me seems like a bit of a false dichotomy; while Sasaki would've had to consider giving up her job, surely there were other jobs she could've pursued.

Not really....  Japan has progressed a good deal from the immediate post-WWII era, but being a single mother is less stigmatized than being in a relationship and being a working mother.  I can't recall all the details particularly, but gender roles are pretty heavily defined, to the point that a woman who wants to succeed in the business world is likely to go on a so-called 'womb-strike'.

The expectation is that a woman who marries, regardless of her education background and success in the workplace, will quit her job and stay at home.  Sometimes they will avoid not just having children, but getting married at all; since they don't need their own places it's not terribly uncommon to just stay with the parents anyway, in a phenomenon labeled 'parasite-singles'.

This is my understanding from reading Michael Zielenziger's Shutting Out The Sun.  It may not be universally correct, but I think it's not unreasonable to say that some of Sasaki's co-workers hold that belief; particularly the one who had recently wrested control away from the retiring boss.

Yikes!  Well, I can definitely say that your attention to the culture has made the piece enlightening for me, this discussion included.

Still, with Kyon as a paranormal investigator of sorts, I think I feel he is already rather proactive, in upholding the mission that Haruhi left behind with him.  Kyon doesn't seem to struggle with the idea of being with her; Scene 4, for instance, dwells mostly on Sasaki's marriage and divorce and fleshing out Kyon's theory.  Perhaps Kyon can be said to be fixated a bit on trying to understand the past and that has kept him from going forward into the future, but this feels like a stretch.  I'll be interested to hear what was intended.

While it's true that Kyon is proactive in some senses, he's also more alone in the world.  Until he encounters Sasaki again, he believes he is the only one he's met who's had real interaction with the paranormal.  In fact, though he's relatively well adjusted (almost agressively so), there is the possibility (though it's not brought up directly in the story) that if he's the only one who remembers it, it was just a dream or delusion.  Sasaki is someone who can confirm that it was a real thing, and has also interacted with something no one else Kyon has met can truly claim to have.

Interesting point.  I think this could be something Kyon might dwell on after meeting Sasaki in the first scene, but at the same time, it's hard to confront without dancing around the big surprise.

[sarsaparilla]

In reply to Arakawa:

Thanks for these thoughts!

Spoiler: ShowHide

Regarding Sasaki's character, I couldn't help but notice that, early on, she claims in her narration an ability to decide on and project whatever persona is best for the interaction at hand (based on when she idly speculates about the best manner to speak with each person on the train).

Actually, the imaginary approaches she described would have been advertisements designed by her instead of her being physically being present to make the sales pitch. However, the assumption would still be true -- she *is* rather capable of projecting a persona that she finds suitable for the situation, and this goes hand in hand with her ability to regulate her own urges.

In my opinion, she is already doing this in the canon, most obviously during the scene when she meets the SOS Brigade the first time. In my eyes, she is much less 'genki' on the inside than what her outward behavior suggests, and in the situation she -- interestingly enough -- modifies her behavior to reflect the perception she has of Haruhi, based on the time they were in elementary school.

However, the entirety of this story is spent with Kyon, making her hesitant to apply such calculation to him. So this ability feels like it's brought up once at the beginning and then set aside for the entire rest of the story, and Sasaki is often left awkward or hesitant about what to do.

This is an important observation, and you are completely right. From a structural point of view this could be seen as a flaw, but I believe that it can be justified through demonstrating how Kyon is 'special' enough to her that she refuses to use her most obvious inter-personal strength.

It makes sense, as she is meeting with an old friend and these are abilities that hinder trust as much as they manufacture it. Many people are made uneasy by the notion that their behaviour could be calculated and taken into account on this level; indeed, it took me a while to realize that this may well have been the issue with her earlier marriage. Indeed, if I had been in Sasaki's position with such abilities, the idea/temptation to use them to engineer a 'perfect marriage' might have gotten overwhelming at some point, even though a reckless use of them would serve to undermine the actually necessary trust for that over the long term....

And another accurate observation. It can't be seen in the description that Sasaki relates to Kyon, but there is a small hint in her thoughts during the first scene, about how her husband had first been delighted about it, until he wasn't any more.

So, it would indeed have been a significant factor in their divorce, and she would be aware of it. I can only assume that she would talk with Kyon about it at some later point -- even as a safety measure, as if she ever lapses into that mode of behavior in their relationship then they should recognize it and take the necessary measures to address the cause, regardless of how convenient it might appear to both of them to let it be.

I guess my question is whether a person with this extreme level of social aptitude would have an outward state of genuinely 'being themselves' that people would still perceive as natural and considerate*, or just a state that is honest in terms of communicating how good she is at analyzing people and situations. Sasaki, with her characteristic analytical style of speaking around Kyon, feels like she's leaning towards the latter case, since as she runs into Kyon she is still on the level of calculating all the possible greetings she might use for him, though she opts for the most straightforward one. So, is this ability something that she can turn on and off at will, or is it just an attribute of how she perceives the world?

Hum ... I think that it is mostly the latter, a deeply ingrained part of how her mind works. She is calculating (or analytical), but not cold. And in addition, the calculations are not primarily driven by her own needs and desires -- her obvious suppression of her desires is also a safety mechanism, since she is aware of how dangerous a weapon her talent could be in the hands of a willingly indulgent ego. This has parallels with her reluctance to accept Haruhi's powers in canon, since she recognizes that all possible safety mechanisms might be too weak to keep such a power in check.

And, this is also another factor that allows her to eventually indulge herself in the company of Kyon, since his presence suppresses the perceived need to rely on her talent.

Initially, when reading this story, I felt torn whether the above should read "now I'm feeling guilty", or not. Based on the earlier knowledge she displays, Sasaki would know perfectly well that (in the English-language medium of the fic) 'Now I'm feeling guilty' would be a more natural way to speak in this context. But based on the speculations I just made about the character, it makes me wonder if the slight formality here might be a deliberate choice.

English is primarily a written language to me, and thus I have great difficulties in trying to internalize different levels of formalism. I have changed the sentence to the more natural form.

This also makes Kyon's character an interesting complement to Sasaki, since he has a much more straightforward approach to being considerate that excludes such worries. I think she remarks at one point that he uses the same conversational style in his articles as he does in person; the former is not a facade as with most journalism, and this explains why she is more comfortable around him than she is around other people. Kyon always deals with people as people, and his approach allows Sasaki the same thing, since regardless of whether she's human or supernatural or an expert at reading people or just normal at it, she's still subject to the principle Kyon was always coming back to in canon when circumstances caused him to doubt his relations to someone. (Namely: Haruhi is just Haruhi. Yuki is just Yuki. In this story, Sasaki is just Sasaki.) This allows him to just pay attention to Sasaki, without worrying about whether he's transparent or opaque to her.

This is exactly how I saw it, and tried to portray it.

He paused to clear his throat. "I don't know if I can describe it properly. It didn't feel as much like her vanishing as it felt like I was myself fading from one reality to another where she wasn't present any more, and the light that I had seen was that of the rising sun, just breaching the horizon. Whatever it was, it didn't change the fact that she was gone."

This particular passage puts a somewhat abstract speculation, in which the planes inhabited by Haruhi and Kyon are not so much separate realities, as coexisting levels of the same reality.

[...]

Now that was pretty interesting, and has direct contact points to many ideas discussed in the story. It is not an interpretation that was consciously written in, but it still fits remarkably well. From the story point of view only 'a' theory was needed, to give the characters a framework in which to address the issues, and thus 'the' theory doesn't even exist -- yours is just as good as mine.

One could also interpret the passage as the story world being an alternate universe created for the express purpose of the main characters getting a chance to be together (what it indeed is, in a very (meta-)literal sense). ^_^