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The Grand Sultan

Started by Anastasia, November 02, 2018, 05:26:15 PM

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Corwin

"Interesting," Seira notes, honestly surprised at the lack of any visible issues. Of course, it's possible this is due to the efreet placing a colossal one right there in the text. "Vel Custos, what do you think of the main article of this would-be treaty? Specifically, I am referring to the 'openly charge' part. Does it all but spell out that conflict will continue, but that perpetrators caught will be disavowed?"
<Steph> I might have made a terrible mistake

Anastasia

"That," Vel Custos frowns, "Is the greatest weaseling in it. It's vague when it doesn't need to be, implying a lot and too blanketing. That should be a target in any negotiation." Jabbing a finger at his copy, "I don't like that part in particular."
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Nephrite

"I'm not terribly fond of the portion about slavery, either." Moore says. "I realize that in any negotiation you start from an assumed position of power to haggle down from, but..." He huffs once. "While I can certainly agree Shar is awful, I think the very fact that slavery exists plays directly into her powers of... awfulness."

Corwin

"Let's focus on it, but Moore is right. They don't really want to follow this agreement rigidly, and if we're fair we'll admit that neither will we. I certainly am not going to announce to my paladins to stay away from efreet slavers!" She scoffs. "I had quite the history with them while I was mortal, and I wouldn't presume this generation is any different."

She taps the part in the contract that is actually offensive, next. "Now, I had an idea for this, but it involves Celestia going out on a limb. Should we wait for Barachiel's return to discuss a counter-proposal?"
<Steph> I might have made a terrible mistake

Anastasia

Vel Custos considers, "No, tell me now," he says, "I do not speak for him, but I can speak of his likely reaction."
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Corwin

"It's a simple, two-pronged approach. We make it a crime for the efreet to enslave, purchase and otherwise acquire new slaves after the date of signing. And then we'll have Celestia purchase all of the existing ones from their owners."
<Steph> I might have made a terrible mistake

Nephrite

Moore blinks, then grins. "I'm sure they'd balk at it, but that's quite clever."

He looks over at Cresiel. "I wonder if there'd be some language we could somehow add to encourage Nasir to give that armor to us."

Corwin

Seira stares incredulously at Moore.
<Steph> I might have made a terrible mistake

Anastasia

"As a matter of principal, we liberate slaves by diplomacy or force of arms, rather than paying for them," Vel Custos says, "Unless it is the only option." He exhales slowly, the three of you with some space from the others as you work. "It won't be accepted by the efreet regardless."

Taking a moment to consider, "My assumptions rest on the thought that the main goal they have is to stop our assault on their slaves before it leads to a general war. The Grand Sultan does not seem to want one - others have been more bloodthirsty and war hungry. This one does not seem to share that trait." Vel Custos concludes.

Then he gives Moore a long look, "If you could convince them of that without giving up something untenable, you would have a tongue not of silver or gold, but of pure platinum."
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Corwin

"You're saying the efreet will refuse either demand? Both to sell their slaves en masse, and to put a stop to any future enslavement?"
<Steph> I might have made a terrible mistake

Anastasia

"I would think so," Vel Custos says, then with a slight frown as he considers, "No. I do not think I am wrong. Unless if Chronias wills it."
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Nephrite

"Do you think he ultimately doesn't want a war because he knows he can't win it?" Moore asks. "This all seems like more blustering than anything, if I'm being honest... unless I'm severely underestimating the forces they have."

He rubs his chin afterwards. "I'm almost of the opinion that we try Lady Seira's plan anyway, to force them to go on record with it."

Corwin

"Why is that? For each clause specifically? All my gathered intelligence suggests that for the vast majority of efreet, it is a way to enhance their profits via unethical plunder rather than some ideological cause as you would expect of the Hells. Does Celestia have other information?"
<Steph> I might have made a terrible mistake

Anastasia

"Cultural inertia and money," Vel Custos says, shortly. Slowly rubbing his bearded chin, "For souls lost in the darkness, the false gleam of money draws them in. They grew up in a world of slaves and slavery. They see it is natural. They are an ordered race, one that understands structure, culture, law and authority. It is not a crusade for them, but it is money and it is the way of the world."

Here the celestial pauses, "My wife would disagree," he finally says. "And I am no expert in the efreet in particular, my talents lie with dealing with Banites and the devils."
<Afina> Imagine a tiny pixie boot stamping on a devil's face.
<Afina> Forever.

<Yuthirin> Afina, giant parasitic rainbow space whale.
<IronDragoon> I mean, why not?

Corwin

"My suggestion comes from several places," Seira says carefully. "First, we will offer the Grand Sultan and his top advisers far more money than they have via their slaves. Yes, tradition and beliefs will come into that, but so will simple greed and opportunism. It will divide them, no matter whom the Sultan caters to, unless he is willing to take the reigns and offer us amendments of his own. That might land us a worse deal, but one that is a step in the right direction."

She pauses for a breath, continuing afterwards. "Second, the first stages of war had not been in his favor, and there is no reason to consider an open conflict would be different. Yes, we will be hurt, but they more so. Both of our sides ran the risk assessments a year ago, when Aurora's conflict with the efreet slavers threatened to spill over. The efreet have solid allies in the face of the devils, but those in charge realize the dangers of becoming Nessus's client state. We, on the other hand, have yet to tap into all our allies, be they in the heavens or the inner planes. I cannot oppose oblivion represented by Shar and tyranny represented by the Hells while glancing at the oppression and slavery of the efreet and giving it a nod of approval. I suspect neither can Celestia, and others may yet join us."

Seira shakes her head, then. "Come to think of it, we may yet draw from the mortal realms as well. There is no shortage of champions who would crusade against efreet, and most of their forces do not require someone like me to take to the battlefield. On the other hand, while the Prime Materials hold more than their share of tyrants and slavers, few of these mortal despots would threaten their fiefdoms to support the efreet on Fire. And mercenaries can be hired for both sides, after all. Then, there is the certainty that Fire will become the new Avernus, and the City of Brass would not wish to become the new Citadel of Bronze, especially not given its history. Finally, if their intelligence is decent, they know that I've started efforts to isolate them financially. The trade in slaves is about to become very difficult indeed on Fire, and both slaver traders and slave owners stand to lose in both money and comfort via the trade of luxuries. That may well serve as further impetus to take a deal and get in front of this."

Looking at Vel Custos, she asks, "Wouldn't you say this combination of factors gives us a better hand in negotiations? Said better hand should be reflected in concessions to our key values, even as we strive to make the deal palatable to their side."
<Steph> I might have made a terrible mistake